1 00:00:05,869 --> 00:00:03,860 Suzanne Ramsey and it kind of worked 2 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:05,879 this way I'll just tell the listening on 3 00:00:10,669 --> 00:00:08,670 it's really quick I had heard of this 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:10,679 story and looked into a little bit when 5 00:00:15,189 --> 00:00:12,090 I first started getting into the show 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:15,199 and then I heard the story about Khan 7 00:00:24,590 --> 00:00:20,570 and the Scully I believe it is and and 8 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:24,600 how it just seemed like there was a 9 00:00:29,140 --> 00:00:27,510 conman out there this whole thing was 10 00:00:33,979 --> 00:00:29,150 made up and there was a figure of 11 00:00:36,860 --> 00:00:33,989 $25,000 and to pay if the story panned 12 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:36,870 out or whatever so I just assumed that 13 00:00:42,799 --> 00:00:40,590 this was totally just a false story and 14 00:00:47,029 --> 00:00:42,809 I didn't really pay attention to it and 15 00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:47,039 and you know I didn't realize that there 16 00:00:54,790 --> 00:00:51,449 was more to it than just that I talked 17 00:00:57,049 --> 00:00:54,800 quite a bit with Dave Marlar and was 18 00:00:58,459 --> 00:00:57,059 driving on the road one day and he 19 00:01:00,549 --> 00:00:58,469 started talking about this case and I 20 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:00,559 said isn't it you know isn't it a hoax 21 00:01:05,870 --> 00:01:03,510 and he said you know this I thought it 22 00:01:08,390 --> 00:01:05,880 was - there's really something to this 23 00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:08,400 and he said you ought to have the 24 00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:11,700 Ramseys on and to talk about it so not 25 00:01:18,050 --> 00:01:13,790 only do we have the Ramseys we also have 26 00:01:19,969 --> 00:01:18,060 doctors fair who also worked on this 27 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:19,979 project and we're gonna be talking about 28 00:01:25,850 --> 00:01:22,110 that tonight the twists and turns and 29 00:01:28,039 --> 00:01:25,860 questions we will take calls in the last 30 00:01:30,679 --> 00:01:28,049 part of the show but for right now I'd 31 00:01:31,490 --> 00:01:30,689 like to welcome on our guests probably 32 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:31,500 gonna have to do a little bit of 33 00:01:40,010 --> 00:01:34,140 adjusting here so hang on just a minute 34 00:01:41,899 --> 00:01:40,020 and here we go hello everyone I'm Martin 35 00:01:45,889 --> 00:01:41,909 everyone happy do you need to put on 36 00:01:49,069 --> 00:01:45,899 your oh he's got it okay got ya so 37 00:01:51,730 --> 00:01:49,079 welcome to the show and you heard what I 38 00:01:55,069 --> 00:01:51,740 said you know I always thought there was 39 00:01:56,569 --> 00:01:55,079 you know this was just a hoax and so 40 00:02:00,770 --> 00:01:56,579 we're gonna clear that up tonight 41 00:02:02,209 --> 00:02:00,780 hopefully and so I do get a lot of new 42 00:02:04,190 --> 00:02:02,219 listeners to the show and a lot of 43 00:02:07,010 --> 00:02:04,200 people are totally unfamiliar with the 44 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:07,020 Aztek incident and I'm gonna ask one of 45 00:02:12,470 --> 00:02:09,539 you or you know both do two or three in 46 00:02:14,230 --> 00:02:12,480 all chime in on let's give a nutshell of 47 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:14,240 exactly what half 48 00:02:22,780 --> 00:02:17,330 back in 1948 if you would Frank let's 49 00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:22,790 start me well I think that we've 50 00:02:27,010 --> 00:02:25,430 actually had two books on this and I was 51 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:27,020 fortunate enough to meet the Ramseys 52 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:28,490 back in 2009 53 00:02:35,170 --> 00:02:31,610 but as you know Roswell began in about 54 00:02:39,070 --> 00:02:35,180 78 is when it really began the 47 crash 55 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:39,080 and Aztec didn't start to see the light 56 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:42,830 of day until about 1986 the Scott Ramsey 57 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:46,310 is a wonderful researcher he went to 58 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:47,930 where it happened this is one of those 59 00:02:54,820 --> 00:02:51,350 places that we know exactly x marks the 60 00:02:57,910 --> 00:02:54,830 spot where the flying saucer settled to 61 00:03:00,190 --> 00:02:57,920 earth and was found by the military we 62 00:03:03,940 --> 00:03:00,200 now know that the cover-up was so good 63 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:03,950 they was better than Roswell and the 64 00:03:13,150 --> 00:03:07,970 Jaypee con con job that you mentioned 65 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:13,160 was very well done and it was brutal but 66 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:17,170 let's start with the March 25th 1948 67 00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:20,060 there was a lot of flying saucer 68 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:21,830 activity in New Mexico this was ground 69 00:03:29,470 --> 00:03:25,130 zero for flying saucer activities I'm a 70 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:29,480 New Mexico native by the way and this 71 00:03:35,710 --> 00:03:32,330 flying saucer came over northern New 72 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:35,720 Mexico followed by some deputies went 73 00:03:42,670 --> 00:03:39,160 past and a ranch house hit a bluff 74 00:03:45,910 --> 00:03:42,680 across from the ranchers land went on 75 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:45,920 over went straight north and landed on a 76 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:50,150 Mesa Hart Canyon Mesa in near asked 77 00:03:57,220 --> 00:03:53,380 about 11 miles from Aztec New Mexico and 78 00:03:58,630 --> 00:03:57,230 here was intact no damage nothing there 79 00:04:00,850 --> 00:03:58,640 obviously something was wrong because 80 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:00,860 the landing gear didn't come out of just 81 00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:04,280 leaning over on the on the Mesa and some 82 00:04:09,370 --> 00:04:07,430 oilfield guys were there early in the 83 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:09,380 morning they heard there was a fire out 84 00:04:13,780 --> 00:04:11,690 on because they had some oil drip tanks 85 00:04:16,180 --> 00:04:13,790 below the Mesa they wanted to check to 86 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:16,190 make sure there was no danger and they 87 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:17,900 went up on the Mesa and they saw this 88 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:21,200 hundred-foot aluminum disc with the dome 89 00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:24,770 on top and they didn't know what it was 90 00:04:27,550 --> 00:04:26,720 they had no idea they didn't know 91 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:27,560 anything about flying 92 00:04:32,530 --> 00:04:29,930 saucers and they were playing around on 93 00:04:35,890 --> 00:04:32,540 that and a few hours later here comes 94 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:35,900 the military in no one was sure whether 95 00:04:40,270 --> 00:04:37,970 it was army or Air Force but they were 96 00:04:43,330 --> 00:04:40,280 there and they took charge 97 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:43,340 they debriefed everybody but not before 98 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:45,710 some of these guys actually got up and 99 00:04:51,820 --> 00:04:48,470 walked around on this disc walked around 100 00:04:53,710 --> 00:04:51,830 on it and you know surplus there's some 101 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:53,720 ranchers there's there who said 102 00:04:57,659 --> 00:04:55,310 something like hey you kids get off of 103 00:05:03,129 --> 00:04:57,669 there you don't know where it's been but 104 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:03,139 just this kind of thing and they found a 105 00:05:12,430 --> 00:05:08,030 way to open it and every story that does 106 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:12,440 this shows that there was a hole in one 107 00:05:18,370 --> 00:05:15,710 of the ports in the dome about the size 108 00:05:21,790 --> 00:05:18,380 of a quarter and somehow someway 109 00:05:24,879 --> 00:05:21,800 somebody stuck a pole into that hole and 110 00:05:27,070 --> 00:05:24,889 hit a button inside and the whole thing 111 00:05:29,650 --> 00:05:27,080 opened up you saw The Day the Earth 112 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:29,660 Stood Still you remember that yeah and 113 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:31,310 the Sultan's are opened up that's 114 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:34,370 apparently exactly what it did and they 115 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:38,750 found 16 childlike bodies dead inside 116 00:05:43,990 --> 00:05:41,690 the craft there's a lot more to that 117 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:44,000 story but we wouldn't know anything 118 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:48,890 about it if Scott had not followed it 119 00:05:53,590 --> 00:05:51,770 like a bulldog and he and Suzanne got 120 00:05:55,990 --> 00:05:53,600 together while he was doing the research 121 00:06:01,480 --> 00:05:56,000 that was a love story they can tell you 122 00:06:06,670 --> 00:06:01,490 about some time and the the facts just 123 00:06:10,330 --> 00:06:06,680 fit Scott found two witnesses two 124 00:06:10,570 --> 00:06:10,340 oilfield guys now in their late late in 125 00:06:13,060 --> 00:06:10,580 life 126 00:06:14,980 --> 00:06:13,070 two oilfield guys didn't know each other 127 00:06:17,770 --> 00:06:14,990 but they were both on the Mesa that 128 00:06:21,550 --> 00:06:17,780 morning and the interview both of them 129 00:06:23,650 --> 00:06:21,560 they told identical stories and it's 130 00:06:27,810 --> 00:06:23,660 chilling we have them actually a tape 131 00:06:30,610 --> 00:06:27,820 recording of one of their accounts and I 132 00:06:32,350 --> 00:06:30,620 think that that is what convinced me 133 00:06:34,090 --> 00:06:32,360 there was no collusion 134 00:06:39,159 --> 00:06:34,100 that's a favorite word about his dates 135 00:06:41,390 --> 00:06:39,169 and these two people who were there they 136 00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:41,400 saw the saucer they saw the body 137 00:06:45,860 --> 00:06:43,800 and they were debriefed and told they 138 00:06:47,810 --> 00:06:45,870 could never talk about it but they were 139 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:47,820 in their late stage of life one of them 140 00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:50,010 and had several strokes and he won't 141 00:06:55,310 --> 00:06:52,800 knew he was dying and he told Scott the 142 00:06:58,670 --> 00:06:55,320 story and it unfolded from there 143 00:07:00,469 --> 00:06:58,680 and everything that Scott has come up 144 00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:00,479 with and what we have in our book is 145 00:07:06,439 --> 00:07:03,840 documented I dare anybody to argue that 146 00:07:08,030 --> 00:07:06,449 this event did not happen now let me 147 00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:08,040 turn it over to Scott and Suzanne and 148 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:10,500 let them embellish and tell tell us some 149 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:14,000 more stuff yeah Mike if I can just offer 150 00:07:17,930 --> 00:07:16,410 you had mentioned one of the first 151 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:17,940 things when you were visiting with Dave 152 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:20,430 Marlowe that that it was a hoax 153 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:24,840 and I'd like to just put a little light 154 00:07:30,590 --> 00:07:28,260 and get put this in perspective if you 155 00:07:32,570 --> 00:07:30,600 only watch part of a movie you either 156 00:07:34,879 --> 00:07:32,580 miss the beginning or you miss the end 157 00:07:36,439 --> 00:07:34,889 you never really know that movie you 158 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:36,449 walk away thinking you know I know what 159 00:07:40,189 --> 00:07:38,220 that movie is about later on you watch 160 00:07:42,620 --> 00:07:40,199 movie and you think holy cats it's 161 00:07:47,150 --> 00:07:42,630 nothing like I originally thought that's 162 00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:47,160 the case of the Aztec story the folks 163 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:49,289 that put on the internet that it was a 164 00:07:54,110 --> 00:07:51,930 hoax did very little research they 165 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:54,120 researched it to a point and they 166 00:08:00,680 --> 00:07:56,520 stopped they didn't deeply research it 167 00:08:03,770 --> 00:08:00,690 they stopped and so they did not have 168 00:08:06,740 --> 00:08:03,780 all of the information and there were is 169 00:08:10,129 --> 00:08:06,750 a three or four people that put the term 170 00:08:13,939 --> 00:08:10,139 hoaxes associated with it 171 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:13,949 the problem is none of them had ever 172 00:08:20,689 --> 00:08:18,510 even been to the crash site ever none of 173 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:20,699 them had really done any research so 174 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:22,650 they really didn't know the story and I 175 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:25,020 think what is so powerful about this 176 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:27,210 story and with the three of us all doing 177 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:29,310 research on it what we've been able to 178 00:08:37,779 --> 00:08:32,370 do is document as Frank was describing 179 00:08:40,070 --> 00:08:37,789 the pre incident where there were 180 00:08:41,810 --> 00:08:40,080 experiences in fact even deeper than 181 00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:41,820 what Frank did he just gave you a little 182 00:08:47,510 --> 00:08:44,790 bit of a an idea about it but but the 183 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:47,520 research that was done the folks that 184 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:49,650 were there and the scientists studying 185 00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:53,520 the crafts before the actual incident 186 00:09:06,540 --> 00:08:55,060 the 187 00:09:09,210 --> 00:09:06,550 that term lightly cover it but gets 188 00:09:12,569 --> 00:09:09,220 overused all the time very specifically 189 00:09:16,499 --> 00:09:12,579 we can document all of that and there is 190 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:16,509 no other case that that we have 55,000 191 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:19,240 over 55,000 documents to document this 192 00:09:25,889 --> 00:09:22,569 so it's a little bit different than just 193 00:09:29,069 --> 00:09:25,899 telling well there's a story or my 194 00:09:32,119 --> 00:09:29,079 friends or you know hearsay there's no 195 00:09:36,540 --> 00:09:32,129 actual documentation which I feel really 196 00:09:39,629 --> 00:09:36,550 supports a true case now you talk about 197 00:09:41,999 --> 00:09:39,639 documentation of a cover-up or are you 198 00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:42,009 talking about documentation about the 199 00:09:50,069 --> 00:09:46,240 case happening well all the above oh we 200 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:50,079 have documents from the FBI CIA army 201 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:54,250 counterintelligence division a lot of 202 00:09:59,179 --> 00:09:56,050 the documents involved in that 203 00:10:01,889 --> 00:09:59,189 collection of 55,000 are tax records 204 00:10:06,929 --> 00:10:01,899 documents of the people that claim they 205 00:10:10,379 --> 00:10:06,939 lived in Aztec at the time newspaper 206 00:10:13,379 --> 00:10:10,389 articles interviews we did with people 207 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:13,389 including Rob Robert McClay who worked 208 00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:16,809 with JP Kahn so it's it's a it's 209 00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:19,120 qualifying so some of its actually 210 00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:21,519 documents as Scott said from from the 211 00:10:26,509 --> 00:10:24,399 military and the government but but some 212 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:26,519 of it's actually qualifying your your 213 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:29,410 witnesses anybody can say anything and 214 00:10:33,329 --> 00:10:30,850 certainly I'm sure that you're familiar 215 00:10:34,769 --> 00:10:33,339 with this Martin on the internet you can 216 00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:34,779 throw anything you want on there you 217 00:10:38,879 --> 00:10:35,920 don't even have to use your real name 218 00:10:41,189 --> 00:10:38,889 you know so that's where I think that 219 00:10:44,699 --> 00:10:41,199 this is a case to be reckoned with 220 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:44,709 and we're very honored that we are able 221 00:10:50,309 --> 00:10:46,990 to share this information well great 222 00:10:53,579 --> 00:10:50,319 well we're at our first break and we are 223 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:53,589 going to go into that right now so hang 224 00:10:57,900 --> 00:10:55,809 in everyone we'll be right back right 225 00:11:00,869 --> 00:10:57,910 after these messages 226 00:11:06,620 --> 00:11:00,879 hey all right welcome back here we are 227 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:06,630 and so I want to continue talking about 228 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:08,710 you know the crash in 229 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:11,170 you know the witnesses I think you know 230 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,350 the firsthand testimony is about the 231 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:16,720 best you can get and I know just like 232 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:20,890 Roswell you know there it's a long time 233 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:23,110 ago as a matter of fact it weren't on an 234 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:28,420 anniversary yesterday right 71st 71st 235 00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:29,980 anniversary so you think about that 236 00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:31,960 someone has to be most likely in their 237 00:11:39,230 --> 00:11:35,440 90s that witness that is there anyone 238 00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:39,240 left now they've all passed 239 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:43,120 Doug Nolan was 19 at the time he just 240 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:46,870 started with El Paso oil and he died as 241 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:48,730 Frank was saying after multiple strokes 242 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:52,420 a few years back looked like he 243 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:54,160 unfortunately unless there's a couple 244 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:55,870 hidden out there that we haven't found 245 00:12:01,560 --> 00:11:57,970 or met yet it looks like everybody's 246 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:01,570 passed on and speaking of that does it 247 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:03,970 happen where some someone will come 248 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:05,590 forward after they read your book or 249 00:12:10,530 --> 00:12:08,260 they see something on television or 250 00:12:14,250 --> 00:12:10,540 YouTube or something like that and has 251 00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:14,260 that happened yes we're working with the 252 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:16,300 gentleman right now obviously he wasn't 253 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:20,830 there at the time but we're still 254 00:12:30,630 --> 00:12:27,520 digging he he approached us in 2016 so 255 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:30,640 far everything checks out his story tax 256 00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:32,410 records that he lived in Dayton Ohio at 257 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:36,070 the time his daughter's school records 258 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:39,100 when she entered kindergarten and he 259 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:41,890 claims he worked as a outside contractor 260 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:45,040 on a flying saucer that came from Aztec 261 00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:49,810 New Mexico hmm so when when Scott's 262 00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:52,540 describing that about about qualifying 263 00:12:58,740 --> 00:12:55,840 him there's usually takes us about two 264 00:13:01,400 --> 00:12:58,750 two and a half years to qualify when we 265 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:01,410 get information it's not a quick process 266 00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:05,160 we work on it on a regular basis I mean 267 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:10,480 usually some every day but it takes time 268 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:12,280 and when he was saying about the 269 00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:14,680 daughter's kindergarten records or or 270 00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:17,590 tax records or things we have to go 271 00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:19,270 through numerous stages to prove that 272 00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:21,100 that person is not only who they say 273 00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:22,790 they are where they were 274 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:27,200 and information about them and to really 275 00:13:31,570 --> 00:13:29,570 qualify them and establish that they are 276 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:31,580 a good witness as opposed to someone 277 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:33,290 just making it up you know that happens 278 00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,050 plenty yeah yeah I guess I'll direct 279 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:38,480 this question that Frank just we want to 280 00:13:43,810 --> 00:13:41,210 get everyone involved here so the the 281 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:43,820 crash is I mean the the craft is coming 282 00:13:50,980 --> 00:13:45,890 people are seeing if they're seeing it 283 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:50,990 wobble and which is unusual is there you 284 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:52,250 know and of course there's a lot of 285 00:13:59,170 --> 00:13:55,250 speculation about all of this or any of 286 00:14:02,020 --> 00:13:59,180 this at that time were were they 287 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,030 speculating that the beings inside were 288 00:14:09,310 --> 00:14:04,160 just all dead and they were blackened 289 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:09,320 right charge-charge dark crispy critters 290 00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:12,650 and but there was no sign of fire inside 291 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:17,060 of the crowd and and would that have to 292 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:19,250 do with possible the little tiny hole or 293 00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:20,570 you know anything 294 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:23,660 it could be decompression but also as 295 00:14:29,470 --> 00:14:26,570 Scott found out in his research that at 296 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:29,480 that time the United States had some of 297 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:31,210 the most powerful radar in the world 298 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:33,710 this is radar course radar just 299 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:37,970 microwave beams and they were so strong 300 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:40,210 that they could cook birds in the air 301 00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:43,820 and so there was that thought that maybe 302 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,190 these crafts were defenseless against 303 00:14:50,950 --> 00:14:48,800 the kind of radar we had right after 304 00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:50,960 World War two and there was a there was 305 00:14:56,950 --> 00:14:53,960 a site at El vato which is not that far 306 00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:56,960 away from Aztec that was in full 307 00:15:01,390 --> 00:14:58,970 operation at that time and that may have 308 00:15:04,450 --> 00:15:01,400 done it but we'll never know we have no 309 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:04,460 idea what caused their death but we do 310 00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:06,530 agree now that with the kind of remote 311 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:08,960 control we have today that the saucer 312 00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,050 could be set down without any human 313 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:15,440 assistance right yeah 314 00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:21,410 and but it didn't really it didn't 315 00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:23,870 really it sort of crashed but it didn't 316 00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:26,510 there was real no no damage that anyone 317 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:29,990 could see and I don't know who wants to 318 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:31,730 do this but can someone describe the 319 00:15:36,130 --> 00:15:34,340 craft as well as you can of what people 320 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:36,140 were claiming it looked like 321 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:38,540 disgustin he's even had a malleable made 322 00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:42,050 oh yeah I should have got that I should 323 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:43,550 have got that on the break yeah you know 324 00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:46,970 we have a 170 second scale model made of 325 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:50,089 it I like Frank was saying I just short 326 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:51,790 of a hundred feet in diameter 327 00:15:58,650 --> 00:15:55,790 it had a raised dome on the top and a 328 00:16:01,690 --> 00:15:58,660 smaller dome on the bottom it was 329 00:16:05,259 --> 00:16:01,700 lenticular is the best description for 330 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:05,269 it it was very thin cross section the 331 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:07,130 only raised section that made any sense 332 00:16:12,579 --> 00:16:09,290 was what we for the lack of a better 333 00:16:15,550 --> 00:16:12,589 word the cabin area the raised dome on 334 00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:15,560 the top the craft we don't know what 335 00:16:20,170 --> 00:16:17,420 kind of material was it was aluminum 336 00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:20,180 looking or pewter looking kind of a dull 337 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:23,529 finish to it 338 00:16:30,130 --> 00:16:27,110 the loaders yeah three stories to it 339 00:16:33,579 --> 00:16:30,140 when the oil field workers the young 340 00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:33,589 kids basically went in they could see 341 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:38,120 three three levels the craft had poured 342 00:16:44,290 --> 00:16:41,810 holes on the top deck the top dome Frank 343 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:44,300 reference one was had a hole in it the 344 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:47,180 size of about a quarter other than that 345 00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:49,670 it was a very plain sight I wanted to 346 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:52,120 add when the oil field workers got there 347 00:16:56,590 --> 00:16:54,490 they did not think anything 348 00:16:57,819 --> 00:16:56,600 extraterrestrial they they were thinking 349 00:16:59,740 --> 00:16:57,829 with all the things that were flying 350 00:17:02,769 --> 00:16:59,750 over New Mexico and being tested New 351 00:17:05,230 --> 00:17:02,779 Mexico during after world war ii they 352 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:05,240 they thought this was really one of ours 353 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:08,260 and climbing on it wasn't really 354 00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:10,970 recreations so to speak they it was more 355 00:17:14,650 --> 00:17:12,470 of a rescue mission they were trying to 356 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:14,660 get into their craft to see if anybody 357 00:17:20,590 --> 00:17:18,290 was hurt and the fact at that time there 358 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:20,600 was actually a helicopter that flew over 359 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:24,770 and one of the witnesses said they 360 00:17:31,299 --> 00:17:27,770 weren't sure which they were more 361 00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:31,309 mesmerized by the craft or the 362 00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:33,140 helicopter because they had just 363 00:17:37,030 --> 00:17:34,910 helicopters had just been introduced to 364 00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:37,040 the public so that'll give you an idea 365 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:39,740 you know certainly today we would be 366 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:43,010 mesmerized by by the saucer but because 367 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:46,850 helicopters are so common no visible 368 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:49,370 seams or rivets or anything like that 369 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:50,170 that's what 370 00:17:57,780 --> 00:17:53,540 and other descriptions consistent 371 00:17:59,020 --> 00:17:57,790 between all the witnesses that are know 372 00:18:01,570 --> 00:17:59,030 absolutely 373 00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:01,580 yeah even going back to Frank Scully and 374 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:05,480 the late bills diamond bill and I 375 00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:09,130 compared notes for about 30 years and 376 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:11,630 right before he died he died a year ago 377 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:15,890 this past January bill gave us a lot of 378 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:18,290 good documents and a lot of his notes 379 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:21,290 that Frank and Suzanne and I have have 380 00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:24,170 reviewed and even his notes from his 381 00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:27,320 people back in the 80s are very 382 00:18:32,110 --> 00:18:29,800 consistent with our witnesses we 383 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:32,120 fortunately we had different groups of 384 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:34,100 witnesses at the time and people that 385 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:35,690 were from different parts of the country 386 00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,330 so and didn't know each other so that 387 00:18:43,690 --> 00:18:41,120 was that was helpful to see that too 388 00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:43,700 that there was that consistency now were 389 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:45,350 there were people that later on in life 390 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:47,330 toward the under the life they decided 391 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:50,390 to talk about this or did people you 392 00:19:00,840 --> 00:18:53,210 know keep it to themselves for the most 393 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:00,850 part as far far as I know and actually 394 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:04,370 contacted Bill Steinman well after 395 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:07,760 Bill's book had been written and so bill 396 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:10,460 handed him off to us and we interviewed 397 00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:12,290 and that and we have a that's almost a 398 00:19:21,610 --> 00:19:17,600 two-hour taped interview with him and he 399 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:21,620 was very consistent as best he could 400 00:19:25,410 --> 00:19:23,690 remember after a series of strokes but I 401 00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:25,420 mean he took us back to the day 402 00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:28,790 everything that went on a pretty good 403 00:19:34,510 --> 00:19:31,160 timeline of how long they were there 404 00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:34,520 until the military showed up which some 405 00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:37,190 say early afternoon and in Doug's case 406 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:38,600 he said it was late morning getting 407 00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:40,850 toward lunchtime but still extremely 408 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:42,740 quick when you when you figure that 409 00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:44,930 terrain I mean Frank's been there 410 00:19:50,290 --> 00:19:47,120 numerous times I've been there many many 411 00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:50,300 times it's not easy today to get anybody 412 00:19:56,410 --> 00:19:53,780 out there we just as last weekend had a 413 00:19:59,770 --> 00:19:56,420 researcher that was out there and giving 414 00:20:02,650 --> 00:19:59,780 him directions and hiking around out 415 00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,660 there it was it's quite an ordeal if you 416 00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:03,600 if you go 417 00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:05,640 you need to make sure that you have gas 418 00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:07,740 in your vehicle and have some bottles of 419 00:20:11,779 --> 00:20:10,500 water and like it's like it's think 420 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:11,789 about those kind of things because 421 00:20:18,529 --> 00:20:14,580 things happen you know how far away is 422 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:18,539 the nearest military base mm-hmm 423 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:22,410 today are back that back then oh let's 424 00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:25,770 see probably Kirtland would have been 425 00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:29,220 the closest alvaro as Frank was saying 426 00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:32,880 as a crow flies is not that far that was 427 00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:35,160 the radar base then he had Moriarty down 428 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:39,000 by Albuquerque that wasn't quite open at 429 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:40,250 the time so we'll roll that out 430 00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:43,260 Continental Divide it was under 431 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,240 construction but it wasn't operational 432 00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:47,520 and then you get up into the Colorado 433 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:49,799 area the Durango Airport used to be a 434 00:20:53,659 --> 00:20:51,809 training base during World War two but 435 00:20:57,289 --> 00:20:53,669 then was turned over to the to the 436 00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,299 county there were a lot of hidden 437 00:21:04,730 --> 00:20:59,520 training camps in that area back to that 438 00:21:07,010 --> 00:21:04,740 time frame like Camp Hill yeah probably 439 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:07,020 a lot more than that one and that's why 440 00:21:12,289 --> 00:21:09,090 we're we're always amazed at that 441 00:21:14,779 --> 00:21:12,299 helicopter where it came from to get to 442 00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:14,789 the crash site because we know we went 443 00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:17,190 down to McMinnville when they had the 444 00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:19,260 large air museum down there we flew out 445 00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,630 and there were two helicopters and 446 00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:23,880 service that went into service January 447 00:21:26,990 --> 00:21:24,750 at 48 448 00:21:29,299 --> 00:21:27,000 they have copies of both when we sat 449 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,309 down and went over the helicopters and 450 00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:32,400 went over it with the curator that did 451 00:21:36,370 --> 00:21:34,230 not have a long right either one of them 452 00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:36,380 didn't have a very long range of flying 453 00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,539 so we're and it didn't stay at the crash 454 00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:42,000 site long it kind of did two passes to 455 00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:44,039 confirm that there was something down on 456 00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:45,720 the Mesa and that it took off to the 457 00:21:53,419 --> 00:21:50,270 northeast okay so this this thing is 458 00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:53,429 crash-landed so to speak whatever you 459 00:21:58,190 --> 00:21:54,809 want to call it crashed or only ended or 460 00:22:00,409 --> 00:21:58,200 above and you know people are around it 461 00:22:05,539 --> 00:22:00,419 and I remember reading in your book that 462 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:05,549 they thought the object was light so was 463 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:07,770 this uh you know was that to say a 464 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:10,140 hundred feet which is amazing pretty big 465 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:13,350 yeah were like a few people able to 466 00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:17,010 actually move the object at all 467 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:20,390 yeah I've had different reports on that 468 00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:25,020 I I'm gonna leave it like this when they 469 00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:26,880 when they removed it from the crash site 470 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:31,020 of course we re-enacted that back a 471 00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:32,790 number of years ago the moving of the 472 00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:36,150 craft and the dragon wagon 473 00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:40,049 that's the m24 tank removal vehicle that 474 00:22:48,350 --> 00:22:43,860 had a I think the capability was 50,000 475 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:48,360 pounds and apparently whatever the 476 00:22:51,650 --> 00:22:50,490 weight of this object was was extremely 477 00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:51,660 light because they had no problems 478 00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,780 moving hmm I think you know I think it 479 00:22:59,360 --> 00:22:57,000 would be a reader would find that 480 00:23:02,630 --> 00:22:59,370 chapter I think it's chapter 11 if I'm 481 00:23:05,419 --> 00:23:02,640 not mistaken moving the craft very 482 00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:05,429 meticulously re-enacted by the Ramseys 483 00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:08,700 and a friend of theirs who is an expert 484 00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:11,429 in moving of heavy equipment 485 00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:13,140 I recommend that to the readers 486 00:23:23,030 --> 00:23:17,960 definitely alright so they there was a 487 00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,040 pad found out there a slab cement and 488 00:23:28,669 --> 00:23:24,960 there was speculation that the crane was 489 00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:28,679 put on this is that how that goes yeah 490 00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:32,960 the they really had to cut a road in to 491 00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,750 to get the craft out and we refer to 492 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:38,880 that as the mystery road or the Military 493 00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:43,020 Road and interviewing a gentleman that 494 00:23:50,919 --> 00:23:47,580 was based down at Walker airfield told 495 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:50,929 me you know I was not at the crash site 496 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:53,370 but when they cut the road they had a 497 00:23:58,159 --> 00:23:56,490 problem with the loose silt he said I 498 00:23:59,470 --> 00:23:58,169 know we were delayed a few days because 499 00:24:02,270 --> 00:23:59,480 they had to pour concrete 500 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:02,280 so the dear friend of ours Randy Barnes 501 00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:05,250 went out probing around one day and this 502 00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:08,580 is a very silty soil it's it's minigraf 503 00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:12,000 and yeah yeah sand and mini gravel and 504 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:14,340 he uncovered it dill Steinman had found 505 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:17,030 it back in the mid-80s but with all the 506 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:19,710 erosion and rain and whatnot it had been 507 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:21,809 covered up again but that was a 508 00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,030 stabilizing pad according to our 509 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:26,880 military person that we refer to as 510 00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:29,490 George in the book and sure enough that 511 00:24:32,899 --> 00:24:30,600 road 512 00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:32,909 was cut and sure enough that pad is 513 00:24:39,499 --> 00:24:37,740 there and so we we found that part and 514 00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:39,509 there's no there's no other reason for 515 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:43,049 that pad or for that road to be there if 516 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:45,450 you are familiar with the oil fields out 517 00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:48,990 in New Mexico they have roads they have 518 00:24:56,690 --> 00:24:51,840 maps of every single little teeny road 519 00:24:58,610 --> 00:24:56,700 that exists they have to to get parts 520 00:25:02,120 --> 00:24:58,620 and things to the oil field workers and 521 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:02,130 there's no reason for that pad or that 522 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:04,529 that road to be there and we've 523 00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:07,500 consulted with oil field workers people 524 00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:10,919 that are out in that area experts in the 525 00:25:16,129 --> 00:25:13,740 field literally in the field and and 526 00:25:17,899 --> 00:25:16,139 there's no reason for it and to the fact 527 00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:17,909 you know we've had people speculate and 528 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:20,700 say well it's to cover well there's no 529 00:25:26,749 --> 00:25:22,620 way because we actually drilled into it 530 00:25:28,999 --> 00:25:26,759 to get a core sample you know we've had 531 00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:29,009 a variety of people toss things out as 532 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:32,990 their speculation but but what the 533 00:25:39,639 --> 00:25:35,690 witness that Scott described George 534 00:25:41,659 --> 00:25:39,649 seems very credible now what about these 535 00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:41,669 it makes very much sense 536 00:25:45,950 --> 00:25:43,740 go ahead learn I'm sorry what about 537 00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:45,960 radar they would you know that's the 538 00:25:50,269 --> 00:25:47,279 only place that the only time I could 539 00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:50,279 think anyone would pour a slab is to 540 00:25:56,409 --> 00:25:53,220 have the radar set up you know whether a 541 00:25:59,899 --> 00:25:56,419 building or or you know the radar itself 542 00:26:03,350 --> 00:25:59,909 so there was there is there a way to map 543 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:03,360 out where the radar was located the we 544 00:26:09,919 --> 00:26:07,529 know a lot oh yeah the radar pads are 545 00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:09,929 still intact and they're huge I mean 546 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:12,240 they're very different yeah they're 547 00:26:18,259 --> 00:26:14,850 actually a big teller that they would 548 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:18,269 set them the the legs of a radar 549 00:26:22,970 --> 00:26:21,690 apparatus this is a just about a meter 550 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:22,980 square it's tiny 551 00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:25,049 I mean it in comparison and would it 552 00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:26,700 work a meter square well would it work 553 00:26:33,649 --> 00:26:30,120 as far as the location goes and where 554 00:26:35,899 --> 00:26:33,659 the Mesa you know where the purported 555 00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:35,909 crash happened does everything fit is 556 00:26:43,730 --> 00:26:42,179 what I'm asking yes it builds as you as 557 00:26:44,210 --> 00:26:43,740 you follow it because there is no other 558 00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:44,220 x 559 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:46,350 nation for it the mystery road comes 560 00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:49,049 down it was actually like a call to sack 561 00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:53,030 it went around a little tiny Mesa and 562 00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,620 according to George when they they cut 563 00:27:00,080 --> 00:26:57,120 the road they had a problem an issue 564 00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:00,090 with it being too silty and if you ever 565 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:03,630 look up an m24 tank vehicle or recovery 566 00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:06,210 vehicle they had stabilizing legs like 567 00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:08,340 the back of a backhoe yep that would 568 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:10,860 come down to stabilize the recovery 569 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:13,650 vehicle and then if you walk out 300 570 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:15,090 yards give or take 571 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:18,330 from that pad is where the plaque is for 572 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:23,130 the disc allegedly landed mm-hmm all 573 00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:25,350 right well let's go back to the date the 574 00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:28,049 day of the the crash or crash landing 575 00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:29,700 whatever you want to call it so that 576 00:27:36,140 --> 00:27:31,559 happens there witnesses around the 577 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:36,150 military shows up fairly quickly do they 578 00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:38,370 permanently shoe people out of there I 579 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:39,960 mean they get the military involved in 580 00:27:44,419 --> 00:27:42,210 actually guarding the area is that is 581 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:44,429 that what the speculation or is there 582 00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:47,250 any way to you know dock any documents 583 00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:50,520 on that no documents but the locals say 584 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:52,679 it was about a two-week recovery process 585 00:28:00,320 --> 00:27:55,770 but that particular day although the 586 00:28:03,049 --> 00:28:00,330 military did come and question all of 587 00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:03,059 the witnesses and then returned do I 588 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:05,780 want to use threaten all the witnesses 589 00:28:12,140 --> 00:28:08,970 reminded them of their loyalty loyalty 590 00:28:14,419 --> 00:28:12,150 to the United States and but the one 591 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:14,429 person that they did welcome after they 592 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:16,590 shoot everybody else up was a minister 593 00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:19,470 that was passing by and he was from 594 00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:22,799 Vegas Colorado a new minister a Baptist 595 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:25,280 minister and he was doing some circuit 596 00:28:31,580 --> 00:28:28,530 preaching and as he passed by he saw 597 00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:31,590 some activity down on the road and so he 598 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:33,270 went out there thinking well there's 599 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:35,010 somebody hurt or something maybe maybe I 600 00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,610 could help and he got there and they 601 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:41,520 said we need you to come up here we need 602 00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:43,710 some help from you and he said sure I'd 603 00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:46,919 be happy to well he climbs the hill and 604 00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:49,260 he gets over the bluff and on top of the 605 00:28:55,340 --> 00:28:51,929 Mesa and here he sees these bodies all 606 00:28:58,159 --> 00:28:55,350 laying there and he went over and and 607 00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:58,169 you know he wasn't they indicated you 608 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:00,000 know prayer and things and he was not a 609 00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,220 priest for last rites but he went over 610 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:04,320 and said prayers on the bodies and then 611 00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:06,450 just left got in his vehicle and drove 612 00:29:13,159 --> 00:29:10,679 back to make us he was so shook up that 613 00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:13,169 he called some of his parishioners that 614 00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:16,289 were close friends of his and they 615 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:20,070 gathered in a room and he said I have to 616 00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:21,450 tell you something that happened to me 617 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:25,080 today and it just shook me up and I just 618 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:28,080 need to share this with you and so he 619 00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:30,570 begins to tell them the story and one of 620 00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:33,600 the the people in the group you can 621 00:29:38,419 --> 00:29:36,299 imagine you hear story like that you're 622 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:38,429 uncomfortable probably but the man went 623 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:41,610 huh like that and it clears his throat 624 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:43,590 and cleared his throat yeah 625 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:46,610 and the minister just began to weep and 626 00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:49,230 said you don't believe me and got very 627 00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:51,030 defensive and upset and he said you 628 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:52,380 think I would tell you this if it wasn't 629 00:29:59,299 --> 00:29:55,950 true and we were able to interview a 630 00:30:01,490 --> 00:29:59,309 child that was there during this when 631 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:01,500 this all went on and he was nine years 632 00:30:06,409 --> 00:30:03,030 old at the time years old at the time 633 00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,419 and so and then the son of the preacher 634 00:30:15,289 --> 00:30:08,880 and then the son of the creature and so 635 00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:15,299 they recall more or less yeah yeah so 636 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:17,700 there's there's another angle there to 637 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:20,250 another layer to it someone that you 638 00:30:23,539 --> 00:30:21,570 wouldn't wouldn't think would be 639 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:23,549 participating and that nine year old boy 640 00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:25,590 went on to be a vice president of a 641 00:30:35,230 --> 00:30:28,559 major airline so his credibility was 642 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:35,240 very good with us we believed him it's 643 00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:39,450 you know when we tell the story of our 644 00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,169 research 645 00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:42,960 we're voice has been amazed in that 646 00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:45,929 small town in that small area it's not 647 00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:48,030 like we had owed us the town drunk 648 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:50,820 you know as our as our source we had 649 00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:52,530 some very very very we've been lucky to 650 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:55,260 have very very credible people that went 651 00:31:01,370 --> 00:30:57,090 on to be very successful and we've 652 00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:01,380 always kind of questioned that but these 653 00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:03,120 are these are people that if you sat 654 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:06,360 down and you talked with you would find 655 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:09,920 that they are would be a perfect witness 656 00:31:15,380 --> 00:31:13,290 mmm-hmm we have a break coming up in 657 00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:15,390 like five minutes from now just to let 658 00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:20,820 you know okay so now the disassembling 659 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:23,940 this is this is a just one of the areas 660 00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:25,710 that I think is well first of all no 661 00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:27,990 one's gonna move 100 foot craft anywhere 662 00:31:35,390 --> 00:31:33,030 too far that's right and the thing 663 00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:35,400 that's puzzling or that something would 664 00:31:38,990 --> 00:31:36,120 come apart 665 00:31:43,790 --> 00:31:39,000 I came apart with supposedly with pins 666 00:31:46,930 --> 00:31:43,800 and even though it's a smooth surface 667 00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:46,940 how would you speculate that they 668 00:31:52,970 --> 00:31:49,320 figured that part of it out how to 669 00:31:55,070 --> 00:31:52,980 disassemble it going from a little bit 670 00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:55,080 of Frank's Kelly's researched bills 671 00:32:00,290 --> 00:31:56,940 diamonds and then just you know of 672 00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:00,300 course we weren't there but it was a 673 00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:02,460 series of what we would call today pin 674 00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:05,280 pins are you from North it bends yeah 675 00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:07,220 like for tractors and things like that 676 00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:10,260 tractors Formula one cars Indianapolis 677 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:13,800 type style racecars the wings are held 678 00:32:20,570 --> 00:32:17,850 on with pin pins the bodywork we have 679 00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:20,580 three tractors here at our farm and of 680 00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:23,550 course we lose pins all the time but 681 00:32:28,550 --> 00:32:25,500 they've come a long way 682 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:28,560 I mean they've the old days of just 683 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:29,910 banging a pin through to hold an 684 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:33,210 implement on and putting a drop latch in 685 00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:36,330 it hitch pin I think they call it and 686 00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:39,240 this in all the descriptions it reminds 687 00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,920 me of the pit pins that they use a 688 00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:42,960 friend of ours has an aerobatic plane 689 00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:45,120 and that whole wing assemblies put 690 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:48,270 together with Tipton's now who's who how 691 00:32:54,770 --> 00:32:51,290 did that the word get out about the pins 692 00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:54,780 I probably an interview that Frank 693 00:32:59,930 --> 00:32:57,200 Scully did with one of the scientists 694 00:33:06,470 --> 00:32:59,940 that told him how the the craft came 695 00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:06,480 apart that goes back to 1950 and I just 696 00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:08,460 think it's you know I mean I'm not 697 00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:11,100 doubting that it happened then I'm just 698 00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:12,960 thinking it's a it's a really weird 699 00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:14,580 thing that something would come apart 700 00:33:21,020 --> 00:33:19,440 like that you know I mean not just the 701 00:33:22,109 --> 00:33:21,030 fact that it appeared to be completely 702 00:33:25,439 --> 00:33:22,119 smooth and 703 00:33:27,899 --> 00:33:25,449 that but just the fact that you know I 704 00:33:30,179 --> 00:33:27,909 mean who knows what technology it was or 705 00:33:32,579 --> 00:33:30,189 whatever but it just seems unusual that 706 00:33:37,019 --> 00:33:32,589 something would be assembled and be able 707 00:33:38,899 --> 00:33:37,029 to be dissin them well you look at when 708 00:33:43,139 --> 00:33:38,909 we were down at Maxwell years ago 709 00:33:46,619 --> 00:33:43,149 reading about the 4602 air intelligence 710 00:33:48,449 --> 00:33:46,629 Recovery Group one of their proud cases 711 00:33:50,069 --> 00:33:48,459 of something they had to disassemble and 712 00:33:53,399 --> 00:33:50,079 bring back to wright-patterson was a 713 00:33:55,649 --> 00:33:53,409 early Nick jet fighter that the pilot 714 00:33:58,799 --> 00:33:55,659 ran low on fuel and ditched it in a 715 00:34:00,089 --> 00:33:58,809 river and that's one of my favorite 716 00:34:03,149 --> 00:34:00,099 things that I've ever gotten that out of 717 00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,159 Maxwell seven guys living under a bridge 718 00:34:08,309 --> 00:34:05,679 with bull ropes at night would go down 719 00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:08,319 in the water and take off a wing or a 720 00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:11,740 stabilizer and the landing gears and 721 00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:13,240 they smuggle the whole thing out in a 722 00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:15,099 hay wagon that's a very well-documented 723 00:34:19,579 --> 00:34:17,980 base down there Maxwell brought it back 724 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:19,589 to wright-patterson and proudly 725 00:34:25,019 --> 00:34:22,690 reassembled it - the ejection seat in 726 00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:25,029 the cockpit and they and the canopy 727 00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,609 isn't that something well yeah it shows 728 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:28,960 how good these guys are 729 00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:33,730 Wow Wow and did know we had another 730 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:35,919 minute just a minute here left or so did 731 00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:38,169 anyone ever talk about 732 00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:41,440 feeling ill or any you know any physical 733 00:34:46,979 --> 00:34:45,399 effects from the object yes do you want 734 00:34:47,399 --> 00:34:46,989 to handle that one Frank just to get you 735 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:47,409 in there 736 00:34:52,799 --> 00:34:50,169 well we've our new source that we 737 00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,809 haven't really exploited yet said that 738 00:34:57,089 --> 00:34:55,119 there was some discussion and Dayton 739 00:35:00,809 --> 00:34:57,099 about the fact that this saucer 740 00:35:02,309 --> 00:35:00,819 reassembled in wright-patterson that you 741 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:02,319 couldn't go into it for very long 742 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:05,980 because you would get ill and apparently 743 00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:09,130 some people who were retrieving material 744 00:35:13,859 --> 00:35:11,470 from it on the Mesa and so on that they 745 00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:13,869 did get ill and some of them were very 746 00:35:18,059 --> 00:35:15,700 serious we don't know how serious it was 747 00:35:20,729 --> 00:35:18,069 and that's a very peculiar thing that 748 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:20,739 the atmosphere inside this disk was 749 00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:24,249 toxic to humans they said no more than 750 00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:27,400 20 minutes a person couldn't yes yeah 751 00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:29,380 well I could I would think that they 752 00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:31,420 would get you know in like a hazmat suit 753 00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:33,849 to even go in the thing you know I I 754 00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:35,980 don't know what they had back in 1948 755 00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:40,240 but still yes I don't think they did is 756 00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:41,830 just like when I was training I didn't 757 00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:43,900 have your protectors for while on the 758 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:46,240 firing range either these things came 759 00:35:51,930 --> 00:35:49,290 later yeah yeah all right well is it 760 00:35:55,260 --> 00:35:51,940 we're up against the break so all right 761 00:35:57,300 --> 00:35:55,270 hang in everyone we'll be right back 762 00:36:00,690 --> 00:35:57,310 hang in there right after these messages 763 00:36:04,290 --> 00:36:00,700 don't go all right welcome back here we 764 00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:04,300 are and we are talking about the Aztec 765 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:09,550 UFO incident back in 1948 interesting 766 00:36:16,890 --> 00:36:12,850 case it's interesting that there's so 767 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:16,900 many so many strands so many spokes to 768 00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,650 this thing now Scott you and yeah I 769 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:21,760 talked on the phone 770 00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:25,330 months ago for quite a while and I 771 00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:27,940 remember you saying to me something 772 00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:31,140 along the lines were you kept trying to 773 00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:34,720 you know weed out if this was a hoax and 774 00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:37,270 you kept coming up like Wow 775 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:39,220 more and more as you went along like 776 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:41,170 more and more there was really something 777 00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:45,040 to it exactly yeah that still happens 778 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:48,609 today and so and one of the big 779 00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:51,490 arguments against it that you you first 780 00:36:59,340 --> 00:36:56,470 tackled oh wow there were so many I 781 00:37:01,650 --> 00:36:59,350 didn't I didn't know when I was out in 782 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:01,660 the Four Corners area anything about an 783 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:03,970 Aztec UFO crash I was familiar with 784 00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:06,910 Roswell we all are and I thought at 785 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:09,700 first are the people confusing Roswell 786 00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:11,650 with Aztec even though we're two 787 00:37:20,609 --> 00:37:17,940 opposite ends of the state it was it was 788 00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:20,619 blackballed so early I mean the military 789 00:37:28,170 --> 00:37:23,380 did a great job with the help of JP Kahn 790 00:37:30,420 --> 00:37:28,180 and others to say and I speculate on 791 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:30,430 this but they did such a lousy job 792 00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:32,350 covering up brahs wall by putting it on 793 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:34,390 the front page of the Roswell paper and 794 00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,010 other papers all the way out to 795 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:38,320 California and all the way far east is 796 00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:40,960 Missouri I think this time they had a 797 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:45,910 plan that it's we're going to have a 798 00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:48,130 recovery operation a lot better than 799 00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:50,440 what we did at Roswell keep in mind you 800 00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:52,600 learn from your mistakes and Roswell was 801 00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:57,730 probably the first I think the first 802 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:00,880 thing that would come up in people's 803 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:05,290 mind about about Aztec is the the fact 804 00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:08,370 that the Silas Newton and Leo gave our 805 00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:13,270 were during the investigation on on our 806 00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:16,360 Aztec they were dragged into court on 807 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:19,120 some civil charges not not criminal like 808 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:22,960 everybody likes to say saying that they 809 00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:26,130 they tried to defraud some oil investors 810 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:29,110 claiming the technology that they had 811 00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:31,450 was superior to anybody's because it's a 812 00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:34,390 valent technology the Doodlebug right is 813 00:38:41,550 --> 00:38:36,700 that the the infamous Doodlebug we've 814 00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:41,560 actually a picture of it the problem 815 00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:45,940 with all of that is if you look at it 816 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:48,640 from the way the story was told similar 817 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:50,290 to what Suzanne was saying earlier the 818 00:38:56,190 --> 00:38:53,650 only hair part of the story and you 819 00:39:00,750 --> 00:38:56,200 don't hear the whole story and then the 820 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:00,760 whole story being that Frank Scully sued 821 00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:03,910 perdy from what was the magazine Frank 822 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:07,270 true magazine and they Frank Scully 823 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:09,220 turned around with the help of Silas 824 00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:11,530 Newton and they sued everybody involved 825 00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,110 in that and it appears there was a 826 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:16,960 rather large out-of-court settlement 827 00:39:22,170 --> 00:39:20,650 that again because it's Aztec you don't 828 00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:22,180 hear about that you got to go digging 829 00:39:26,580 --> 00:39:24,280 through the archives to find all that if 830 00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:26,590 I could mention something real quick if 831 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:28,900 you're not familiar with this story this 832 00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,250 seems a little abstract 833 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:33,040 Silas Newton let's say who Silas Newton 834 00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:36,130 and Leo Gilbert Palmer gave out they 835 00:39:44,070 --> 00:39:41,560 actually were I'll say friends with with 836 00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:44,080 Frank Scully who is the author of the 837 00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:47,590 first book and they approached him and 838 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:50,800 they were approached by nine scientists 839 00:39:54,090 --> 00:39:53,650 that worked on the craft to tell the 840 00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:54,100 story 841 00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:56,110 Frank Scully wrote all types of 842 00:40:01,290 --> 00:39:58,240 biographies he was a very famous writer 843 00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:01,300 he wrote for by Variety magazine too but 844 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:01,870 he 845 00:40:14,490 --> 00:40:12,970 taking people in that were going through 846 00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:14,500 a hard time in their life and keeping 847 00:40:20,130 --> 00:40:17,830 their secrets and so he seemed like I 848 00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:20,140 know this part is my speculation he 849 00:40:24,210 --> 00:40:22,270 seemed like the perfect person that you 850 00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:24,220 could tell secrets to and then have him 851 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:28,150 tell it and so the scientists confided 852 00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:32,110 in him and Silas Newton and Leo gave our 853 00:40:45,390 --> 00:40:39,670 were the two liaisons as a catalyst that 854 00:40:49,770 --> 00:40:45,400 approached Scully and so when this story 855 00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:49,780 was attacked by we need to go on and 856 00:40:55,890 --> 00:40:53,260 tell about who JP Cohn is and so that 857 00:40:59,220 --> 00:40:55,900 you know who that player is too but when 858 00:41:04,200 --> 00:40:59,230 the government and JP Khan attacked this 859 00:41:07,170 --> 00:41:04,210 they went after to discredit the people 860 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:07,180 that were telling this story so I just 861 00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:08,890 want you to see the big picture and it's 862 00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:10,870 a very complex story as you said and if 863 00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:13,750 you're not familiar with the story you 864 00:41:17,790 --> 00:41:15,340 think well where do these people come 865 00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:17,800 from where did this hoax come up but 866 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:20,070 there was an effort to discredit 867 00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:22,990 everybody that was in doubt yeah they 868 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:25,180 just one-by-one started taking him apart 869 00:41:29,550 --> 00:41:27,370 yeah everybody that was involved an 870 00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:29,560 Aztec at some point was dragged down the 871 00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:33,040 rabbit hole and discredited and Silas 872 00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:35,380 Newton just in case people in your 873 00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:38,800 audience aren't familiar the case at 874 00:41:43,610 --> 00:41:40,270 that time he was one of the wealthiest 875 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:43,620 men in the country doing oil speculation 876 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:46,570 and he had oil every all the old-time 877 00:41:52,980 --> 00:41:48,850 oil guys in the four corners know Silas 878 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:52,990 knew or knew of Silas Newton and that's 879 00:41:56,940 --> 00:41:55,210 how he heard about the story his claim 880 00:42:00,360 --> 00:41:56,950 to fame was the rediscovery of the 881 00:42:03,420 --> 00:42:00,370 wrangling fields up in Colorado but I 882 00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:03,430 attacked him because I didn't they 883 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:07,000 attacked him because he did oil 884 00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:09,190 speculation and that's exactly what it 885 00:42:14,130 --> 00:42:10,870 is it's never a hundred percent that's 886 00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:14,140 the risk so that's how they attacked him 887 00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:15,310 you know you take 888 00:42:20,490 --> 00:42:17,620 weakest link and if it's that's how they 889 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:20,500 went about tacking him but to fully 890 00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,930 answer the question you asked it was 891 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:24,400 looking at the whole story 892 00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:26,890 looking at how it started to crumble 893 00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:30,070 apart and then kind of looking at what 894 00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:32,080 what made it crumble what caused it and 895 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:35,980 that that just I mean just the the 896 00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:38,290 research on the alleged scientist that 897 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:41,830 Scully talked about the doctor geez that 898 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:43,930 that part of the book was three years 899 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:46,450 just researching those scientists and 900 00:42:50,970 --> 00:42:48,310 the doctors geez 901 00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:50,980 wasn't his real name right is that a mic 902 00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:55,390 that it was a collection of the eight 903 00:43:01,860 --> 00:42:57,460 sigh eight to nine scientists there were 904 00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:01,870 nine one died and Scully gave him the 905 00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:07,240 overall name of dr. G yeah yeah and I 906 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:10,030 remember that you researched for a long 907 00:43:16,770 --> 00:43:12,100 time trying to find I'm going to say 908 00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:16,780 bass or a name something like that yes 909 00:43:19,310 --> 00:43:18,460 yeah what was that what was the reason 910 00:43:23,010 --> 00:43:19,320 for that 911 00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:23,020 Virgil Riggs who lived at Aztec later 912 00:43:27,570 --> 00:43:25,630 went into the military he's actually 913 00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:27,580 been in several branches but at the time 914 00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:30,550 the Air Force and while stationed over 915 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:34,120 in England he met a gentleman that was 916 00:43:43,830 --> 00:43:38,770 much older than him that had an Aztec or 917 00:43:45,390 --> 00:43:43,840 I'm sorry Virgil had an Aztec sticker on 918 00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:45,400 his little sports cars British sports 919 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:48,940 car and basset Aztec New Mexico and knew 920 00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:53,170 all about Aztec and as they got to be 921 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:54,790 good friends they both stood up in each 922 00:43:59,280 --> 00:43:56,110 other's wedding they're on the same 923 00:44:00,780 --> 00:43:59,290 bowling tape of you know on and on he 924 00:44:02,430 --> 00:44:00,790 can fight it in virginal he said the 925 00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:02,440 reason I know about Aztec because I 926 00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:04,510 worked on a flying saucer recovery out 927 00:44:08,970 --> 00:44:05,740 there hmm 928 00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:08,980 the donald bass has disappeared we think 929 00:44:12,020 --> 00:44:11,590 we found him and i think he's passed on 930 00:44:15,810 --> 00:44:12,030 now 931 00:44:19,650 --> 00:44:15,820 but the story in the the group of that 932 00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:19,660 Air Force came back that he was killed 933 00:44:25,980 --> 00:44:22,180 by a hit-and-run driver in Vietnam right 934 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:25,990 which we you know maybe so maybe not 935 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:27,610 some say well his name's out on the 936 00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:29,170 Vietnam Memorial well 937 00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:30,550 according to the Vietnam Memorial 938 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:32,260 there's a lot of names on on that wall 939 00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:35,410 right but I think he actually survived I 940 00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:38,200 think I actually talked to him and the 941 00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:41,920 irony the irony is I probably drove by 942 00:44:47,930 --> 00:44:43,870 where he lived several times he retired 943 00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:47,940 down here in the southeast hmm well okay 944 00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:52,150 and where does a flock fit into to this 945 00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:53,310 whole thing 946 00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:56,880 Carl flock was an interesting character 947 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:00,480 Carl was ex United States Marine Corps 948 00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:04,450 later recruited by the CIA and he never 949 00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:06,220 made any bones about that he didn't try 950 00:45:12,810 --> 00:45:09,220 to hide that part he was very active in 951 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:12,820 various UFO groups over the years he was 952 00:45:18,270 --> 00:45:14,410 real active in afro when they were 953 00:45:20,940 --> 00:45:18,280 around and Carl lived just north of 954 00:45:25,770 --> 00:45:20,950 occur key actually up near where Dave 955 00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,780 Marley lives and he just appeared out of 956 00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,520 nowhere when I started digging into 957 00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:29,440 Aztec I mean it was just like I flipped 958 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:31,110 on a light switch and there was Carl I 959 00:45:38,490 --> 00:45:34,210 didn't know who Carl was and he had a 960 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:38,500 big interest in our research we could do 961 00:45:42,540 --> 00:45:40,050 a whole show on Carl I mean he actually 962 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:42,550 intercepted documents that were sent out 963 00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,130 of my office but things like JP carne he 964 00:45:53,820 --> 00:45:50,560 called me one day and said no but 965 00:45:57,540 --> 00:45:53,830 there's really no need to research JP 966 00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:57,550 Cohen he died I was out in San Francisco 967 00:46:02,940 --> 00:46:00,160 and learned he died and I said when he 968 00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:02,950 said all years ago well that turned out 969 00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:05,440 not to be very accurate at all he died 970 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:09,550 in 2005 hmm I Carl was steering me all 971 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:11,530 the time to keep away from people that 972 00:46:17,850 --> 00:46:13,810 were alive and where do you suppose that 973 00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:17,860 more of an ongoing cover-up I do I do I 974 00:46:23,850 --> 00:46:21,760 firmly believe that when we discovered 975 00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:23,860 the radar basis because Scully had 976 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:25,750 mentioned the radar basis and Steinman 977 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:28,450 in his book and the reason the UFO 978 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:30,370 community for the lack of a better word 979 00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:33,610 poo-pooed the radar basis is they come 980 00:46:38,070 --> 00:46:35,800 up to me and say nobody's ever found him 981 00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:38,080 and that was true nobody ever found the 982 00:46:42,540 --> 00:46:39,760 radar basis because they were filed 983 00:46:47,220 --> 00:46:44,640 what was that group prank back then 984 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:47,230 wasn't the airforce Atomic Energy 985 00:46:55,620 --> 00:46:50,290 Commission oh okay have these radio 986 00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:55,630 shows late today doesn't do me Atomic 987 00:47:01,020 --> 00:46:57,730 Energy Commission had built the basis to 988 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:01,030 protect Los Alamos and it wasn't until 989 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:02,650 years later they turned him over to the 990 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:04,810 air force but they you know they were up 991 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:06,970 and running so if you were looking at 992 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:09,610 the airforce archives for the radar 993 00:47:13,590 --> 00:47:11,290 bases you weren't going to find him and 994 00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:13,600 the Air Force actually found them on our 995 00:47:19,170 --> 00:47:16,390 behalf at the archives of the Atomic 996 00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:19,180 Energy Commission know how the flock was 997 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:21,910 one of those people that that he would 998 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:24,970 always profess how he was so such an 999 00:47:30,810 --> 00:47:28,210 avid believer in the UFOs and and they 1000 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:30,820 exist but his statement always would be 1001 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:33,490 I just don't believe this case I just 1002 00:47:38,370 --> 00:47:36,130 don't believe that case yeah Roswell an 1003 00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:38,380 Aztec where there were physical and good 1004 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:40,240 evidence well didn't fit into his 1005 00:47:44,430 --> 00:47:42,010 bailiwick but Carla Karl was a 1006 00:47:47,220 --> 00:47:44,440 one-of-a-kind guy I can I can say that 1007 00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:47,230 well well let's talk about the physical 1008 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:50,080 trace evidence I know there's a scratch 1009 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:53,650 on a Mesa that looks suspiciously like 1010 00:47:57,330 --> 00:47:55,090 it could be something but is there 1011 00:48:00,120 --> 00:47:57,340 anything else that you'd consider trace 1012 00:48:02,220 --> 00:48:00,130 evidence mm-hmm 1013 00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:02,230 I wish Ted Phillips was on the show 1014 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:04,000 because he had an interesting time when 1015 00:48:10,590 --> 00:48:07,450 he was at the crash site things that we 1016 00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:10,600 noticed when we re-enacted the crash or 1017 00:48:17,250 --> 00:48:14,260 the removal of the craft that had to go 1018 00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:17,260 a really specific way down through Largo 1019 00:48:21,870 --> 00:48:20,020 Canyon and Punk Canyon because of the 1020 00:48:24,510 --> 00:48:21,880 even though as we talked earlier you 1021 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:24,520 took the craft apart sections they were 1022 00:48:29,550 --> 00:48:27,490 still good sized sections and going 1023 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:29,560 through those canyons we have what the 1024 00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:32,050 experts call pinch concerns pinch areas 1025 00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:38,220 and as bill and I were taking the 1026 00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:40,900 reenactment out we noticed and you know 1027 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:42,670 you know things don't really deteriorate 1028 00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:45,250 much in the in the desert along certain 1029 00:48:49,890 --> 00:48:48,430 roads where trees have been cut down not 1030 00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:49,900 far from the crash site I mean I'm 1031 00:48:54,060 --> 00:48:51,520 talking less than an eighth of a mile 1032 00:48:56,430 --> 00:48:54,070 from the crash site that trees have been 1033 00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:56,440 cut down in the old stumps of the car 1034 00:49:01,620 --> 00:48:59,040 would trees and whatnot were still there 1035 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:01,630 could you consider that evidence yeah 1036 00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:05,130 you know I don't know the concrete slab 1037 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:09,670 is one that we tend to lean to the fact 1038 00:49:15,390 --> 00:49:11,770 that we're the craft allegedly came down 1039 00:49:18,510 --> 00:49:15,400 on the Mesa when we first got there and 1040 00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:18,520 Bill Steinman years ahead of me the dead 1041 00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:21,280 trees were still there that had were all 1042 00:49:25,350 --> 00:49:23,110 knocked down toward the Northeast 1043 00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,360 the Bureau of Reclamation or the Bureau 1044 00:49:30,030 --> 00:49:28,240 of Land Management made us move them to 1045 00:49:32,190 --> 00:49:30,040 a safe place and get them off the trail 1046 00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:32,200 so they because they knew we're having 1047 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:34,870 people go up to the crash site people do 1048 00:49:42,330 --> 00:49:39,850 everyday right now so it's yeah there's 1049 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:42,340 an when we we saw something very 1050 00:49:46,050 --> 00:49:44,170 interesting you know depending on where 1051 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:46,060 you're at you see a different 1052 00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:50,290 perspective of things and in a flight 1053 00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:53,110 over the top now this is before drones 1054 00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,510 and things but in a flight over the top 1055 00:50:00,510 --> 00:49:57,520 of the crash site it's very interesting 1056 00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:00,520 you know in nature there is a random 1057 00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:03,040 pattern of how plants and trees and 1058 00:50:08,430 --> 00:50:06,190 things grow it was very interesting in 1059 00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:08,440 certain areas right on top of that Mesa 1060 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:11,920 they were opinions planted in exact rows 1061 00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:15,010 which would be separate logically that 1062 00:50:18,990 --> 00:50:17,110 we would do without even thinking about 1063 00:50:21,060 --> 00:50:19,000 it you would transplant something not 1064 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:21,070 thinking organically the way the 1065 00:50:25,950 --> 00:50:23,010 patterns it would grow so it was a very 1066 00:50:27,570 --> 00:50:25,960 interesting perspective to see that that 1067 00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:27,580 you would never know from the ground you 1068 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:29,380 wouldn't be able to tell that hmm 1069 00:50:33,690 --> 00:50:31,210 if someone was trying to hide a site 1070 00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:33,700 though it'd be kind of strange for them 1071 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:35,830 to plant like that if they were trying 1072 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:38,170 to I think you know bring it back like 1073 00:50:47,010 --> 00:50:43,690 you say organically for one thing again 1074 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:47,020 you know it's not like you had the air 1075 00:50:50,850 --> 00:50:49,210 travel that you do today for one thing 1076 00:50:53,790 --> 00:50:50,860 and and I don't think they were thinking 1077 00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:53,800 from that perspective hmm I think it's 1078 00:51:00,750 --> 00:50:57,040 very common military to restore crash 1079 00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:00,760 sites yes appear as though nothing ever 1080 00:51:07,020 --> 00:51:04,120 happened right so I I'm sure that they 1081 00:51:09,420 --> 00:51:07,030 did restore that site to is near 1082 00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:09,430 original as possible 1083 00:51:14,430 --> 00:51:13,119 to cover their their departure right I 1084 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:14,440 don't think they thought about the 1085 00:51:18,750 --> 00:51:16,450 planting pounds you know I don't think 1086 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:18,760 they thought about that yeah I spoke to 1087 00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:20,050 someone that actually did that but he 1088 00:51:24,690 --> 00:51:22,150 did that for like quarrys and things 1089 00:51:27,780 --> 00:51:24,700 like that tried to bring him back to to 1090 00:51:30,809 --> 00:51:27,790 look the way they did you know yes I 1091 00:51:38,190 --> 00:51:30,819 think I would like to take some calls 1092 00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:38,200 are you up for that yeah so the number 1093 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:39,940 let me get it up on the screen here in 1094 00:51:44,809 --> 00:51:41,050 just a minute 1095 00:51:48,660 --> 00:51:44,819 patience everyone I'm doing the shows 1096 00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:48,670 solo again here no one working in the 1097 00:51:53,579 --> 00:51:51,430 background so it's just me but anyway I 1098 00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:53,589 saw the call is we got someone calling 1099 00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:56,710 right now and hello caller welcome to 1100 00:52:02,670 --> 00:51:58,140 the show 1101 00:52:08,849 --> 00:52:02,680 hello hello who do I have here David 1102 00:52:10,829 --> 00:52:08,859 Marlar how are you Dave oh yeah thanks 1103 00:52:15,299 --> 00:52:10,839 for calling and I'm doing well yeah I'm 1104 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:15,309 just enjoying the show well your ears 1105 00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:22,210 burning yeah they were I told myself a 1106 00:52:26,430 --> 00:52:25,030 better tune into podcast UFO here my 1107 00:52:30,180 --> 00:52:26,440 ears are burning someone talking about 1108 00:52:32,780 --> 00:52:30,190 me yeah we should doubt that the day's 1109 00:52:36,299 --> 00:52:32,790 working on a book himself right Dave 1110 00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:36,309 slowly but surely dr. Thayer trying to 1111 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:38,710 get there but it's Scott and Suzanne 1112 00:52:44,010 --> 00:52:40,450 knows as well as yourself it's hard to 1113 00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:44,020 juggle work and family and UFO research 1114 00:52:50,970 --> 00:52:49,240 yes yes yeah yeah everyone on the phone 1115 00:52:53,370 --> 00:52:50,980 none of us make our living doing this 1116 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:53,380 this is you know something on the side 1117 00:52:58,170 --> 00:52:56,410 but I just wanted to say I had the 1118 00:53:00,240 --> 00:52:58,180 pleasure of going to Maxwell Air Force 1119 00:53:02,789 --> 00:53:00,250 Base with my fiance back in February 1120 00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:02,799 2018 with Scott and Suzanne and they 1121 00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:05,049 were my guides so to speak in 1122 00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:07,030 introducing me to Maxwell Air Force Base 1123 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:10,000 and the files there and just had a 1124 00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:11,530 wonderful time and I just wanted to say 1125 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:13,569 Martin you know firsthand I've witnessed 1126 00:53:18,359 --> 00:53:16,690 their their research tenacity in digging 1127 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:18,369 through and going through government 1128 00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:21,490 files and documents and you know with 1129 00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,990 regard to their book I 1130 00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:24,880 it just make the argument having read it 1131 00:53:29,490 --> 00:53:27,100 and having spent time with Scott Suzanne 1132 00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:29,500 their book is not a UFO book I would 1133 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:31,000 rather characterize it as a great 1134 00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,090 real-life detective story because really 1135 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:36,400 they take a very very common-sense 1136 00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:38,410 approach to the situation and trying to 1137 00:53:44,670 --> 00:53:41,830 find facts evidence and correlations 1138 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:44,680 with the various individuals and aspects 1139 00:53:50,130 --> 00:53:47,170 of the story it's not a UFO book in that 1140 00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:50,140 sense I think if anybody is fascinated 1141 00:53:53,490 --> 00:53:51,580 with detective work 1142 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:53,500 Scott Suzanne definitely qualify as the 1143 00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:55,210 best Private Investigators I've ever met 1144 00:54:01,080 --> 00:53:59,230 and you know I and I think Scott and 1145 00:54:02,910 --> 00:54:01,090 Suzanne would also say they're not UFO 1146 00:54:04,590 --> 00:54:02,920 researchers they're Aztec UFO 1147 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:04,600 researchers they're not chasing every 1148 00:54:10,170 --> 00:54:07,170 lightness every light in the sky story 1149 00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,180 they've been focused on one specific 1150 00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:12,400 case and I just want to give them credit 1151 00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:14,830 it's not often you see people dedicate 1152 00:54:19,530 --> 00:54:16,960 their lives and dr. Thayer as well to 1153 00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:19,540 focusing on one specific case and just 1154 00:54:24,359 --> 00:54:21,100 continuing to drill down deeper and 1155 00:54:28,190 --> 00:54:24,369 deeper and I know with Silas Newton and 1156 00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:28,200 Leia Leo gave our eye like many people 1157 00:54:32,099 --> 00:54:30,700 kind of fell into that narrative that 1158 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:32,109 was put out there that they were con 1159 00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:34,450 artists and as I think Scott alluded to 1160 00:54:37,380 --> 00:54:36,910 Silas Newton had no reason to be a con 1161 00:54:39,450 --> 00:54:37,390 artist 1162 00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:39,460 he was extremely financially successful 1163 00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:41,830 and when you start pulling on those 1164 00:54:46,830 --> 00:54:44,260 threads as they have you realize very 1165 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:46,840 quickly the story doesn't add up 1166 00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:49,810 and then it begs the next question well 1167 00:54:53,490 --> 00:54:51,369 then why are we being told this 1168 00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:53,500 narrative and it really opens it up to 1169 00:55:03,000 --> 00:54:55,810 this discussion that we're having on the 1170 00:55:04,830 --> 00:55:03,010 show today yeah at the time of Silas 1171 00:55:07,530 --> 00:55:04,840 Newton and Leo Gabe Bauer and this is 1172 00:55:12,210 --> 00:55:07,540 coming from an FBI document now keep in 1173 00:55:14,130 --> 00:55:12,220 mind this is 40 48 to 49 he had 20 1174 00:55:16,349 --> 00:55:14,140 million dollars cash in his personal 1175 00:55:18,810 --> 00:55:16,359 bank account hmm I don't know what that 1176 00:55:22,349 --> 00:55:18,820 would be equivalent today but that would 1177 00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:22,359 be huge and as we've learned over the 1178 00:55:28,650 --> 00:55:24,910 years his personal holdings were endless 1179 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:28,660 and Leo gave our who we would all like 1180 00:55:35,340 --> 00:55:31,570 to read the horror stories about what a 1181 00:55:36,610 --> 00:55:35,350 con artist he was actually and Frank was 1182 00:55:38,170 --> 00:55:36,620 there we went to the fur 1183 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:38,180 development that his construction 1184 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:42,530 company built in Arizona and these are I 1185 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:45,050 don't want to call him huge homes but 1186 00:55:50,650 --> 00:55:48,290 they were three four thousand 1187 00:55:53,290 --> 00:55:50,660 square-foot homes back in the day right 1188 00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:53,300 and they had we we were led to believe 1189 00:55:59,470 --> 00:55:56,030 that Leo gave our was electronic 1190 00:56:01,960 --> 00:55:59,480 salesmen sold TV vacuum tubes well that 1191 00:56:03,730 --> 00:56:01,970 part is true that was his hobby trading 1192 00:56:07,810 --> 00:56:03,740 and electronics but he had a very 1193 00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:07,820 successful contracting business well 1194 00:56:13,630 --> 00:56:10,520 interesting well I was trying to do that 1195 00:56:17,500 --> 00:56:13,640 calculation it looks like something like 1196 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:17,510 two point four billion dollars possibly 1197 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:21,770 that maybe off but yeah a billion here a 1198 00:56:25,870 --> 00:56:23,450 billion there pretty soon we're talking 1199 00:56:30,580 --> 00:56:25,880 a little bit of money a buck or two yeah 1200 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:30,590 yeah Dave do you have anything else for 1201 00:56:35,890 --> 00:56:33,890 us um and I'd also also like to give a 1202 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:35,900 plug I know you still have your your 1203 00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:38,810 GoFundMe up there can you talk a little 1204 00:56:44,830 --> 00:56:41,510 over here and the archive said just just 1205 00:56:47,050 --> 00:56:44,840 before you do that yeah go ahead it's 1206 00:56:47,500 --> 00:56:47,060 not it's not let me calculate it that's 1207 00:56:51,370 --> 00:56:47,510 too bad 1208 00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:51,380 oh yes no I'm sorry it was 214 million 1209 00:57:00,940 --> 00:56:54,430 seven hundred twenty-nine thousand and 1210 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:00,950 eighty three cents nineteen forty now 1211 00:57:08,860 --> 00:57:05,530 yes so go ahead and gave if you would oh 1212 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:08,870 yeah I just have been collecting a lot 1213 00:57:12,820 --> 00:57:11,330 of historical material and Scott and 1214 00:57:14,260 --> 00:57:12,830 Suzanne have been very instrumental in 1215 00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:14,270 putting me in touch with some witnesses 1216 00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:15,950 regarding the farmington research but 1217 00:57:20,110 --> 00:57:17,390 that's of course just one of a number of 1218 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:20,120 cases i've been looking at and we've 1219 00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:21,890 talked before i've kind of set up a 1220 00:57:25,300 --> 00:57:23,990 GoFundMe site just for anybody that does 1221 00:57:26,770 --> 00:57:25,310 feel like they would you know 1222 00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,780 financially like to assist with 1223 00:57:30,220 --> 00:57:28,640 endeavors like trips out to Maxwell Air 1224 00:57:32,350 --> 00:57:30,230 Force Base and other things like that 1225 00:57:35,740 --> 00:57:32,360 and also securing these historical 1226 00:57:37,630 --> 00:57:35,750 collections it's great that Scott 1227 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:37,640 Suzanne have been able to preserve some 1228 00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:39,770 of Steinman's research for future 1229 00:57:44,350 --> 00:57:42,200 generations and I think that's very 1230 00:57:46,930 --> 00:57:44,360 important and I know that we share that 1231 00:57:48,970 --> 00:57:46,940 passion for history and for preservation 1232 00:57:50,260 --> 00:57:48,980 of this information not just for 1233 00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:50,270 ourselves but for certain 1234 00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:52,790 future generations of researchers and so 1235 00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:54,710 I just want to commend them for their 1236 00:58:00,460 --> 00:57:57,620 efforts and just one last question 1237 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:00,470 before I go for Scott Suzanne and dr. 1238 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:02,330 Thayer is if they could maybe just touch 1239 00:58:06,670 --> 00:58:04,610 a little bit more obviously I live here 1240 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:06,680 in New Mexico like dr. Thayer they get 1241 00:58:10,540 --> 00:58:08,330 just such a little bit more on being Los 1242 00:58:12,310 --> 00:58:10,550 Alamos connection with regard to the 1243 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:12,320 haze because I was really fascinated by 1244 00:58:16,750 --> 00:58:15,050 that yeah and as a crow flies how far 1245 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:16,760 was that you know you want to start out 1246 00:58:25,420 --> 00:58:21,290 Frank 150 miles just sort of south 1247 00:58:27,580 --> 00:58:25,430 southeast Aztec and we figured that's 1248 00:58:29,140 --> 00:58:27,590 where the disk was taken first and 1249 00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:29,150 that's where the scientists first 1250 00:58:33,970 --> 00:58:32,240 examined it before they got in touch 1251 00:58:36,340 --> 00:58:33,980 with their old friend Silas Newton who 1252 00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:36,350 was a geophysicist he was not just an 1253 00:58:41,830 --> 00:58:40,160 oil guy he was a really at me and 1254 00:58:45,010 --> 00:58:41,840 advanced degrees from University of 1255 00:58:48,190 --> 00:58:45,020 Berlin he was he was a very educated man 1256 00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:48,200 and they told him a story he told Scully 1257 00:58:53,470 --> 00:58:50,510 the story and that's how it got out from 1258 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:53,480 under the under the military and they 1259 00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:56,210 had to go to lanes to stop it but Los 1260 00:59:01,600 --> 00:58:58,400 Alamos is still one of the most secret 1261 00:59:04,270 --> 00:59:01,610 places in New Mexico dance on the base 1262 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:04,280 he's had secret clearance I'll be there 1263 00:59:09,550 --> 00:59:06,850 at the end of the month yeah Wow 1264 00:59:11,380 --> 00:59:09,560 interesting yeah my brother-in-law I 1265 00:59:12,850 --> 00:59:11,390 worked there I spied lived in Los Alamos 1266 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:12,860 for a while I don't know if I ever said 1267 00:59:16,930 --> 00:59:14,690 that on the show for I don't know maybe 1268 00:59:20,860 --> 00:59:16,940 six months or so and my brother-in-law 1269 00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:20,870 was at the lab yeah and couldn't talk 1270 00:59:28,090 --> 00:59:26,330 about much or didn't talk about much hey 1271 00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:28,100 we sure want to appreciate you calling 1272 00:59:34,210 --> 00:59:31,520 in and and our best to you and Kendra 1273 00:59:36,730 --> 00:59:34,220 and thank you for the research that you 1274 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:36,740 do too we we had such a good time with 1275 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:39,490 you and it was such a treat to be with 1276 00:59:45,820 --> 00:59:42,890 people that value history and accurate 1277 00:59:48,070 --> 00:59:45,830 documentation of history as you do it 1278 00:59:49,810 --> 00:59:48,080 was it was almost like we don't get a 1279 00:59:51,820 --> 00:59:49,820 chance to do that very often be with 1280 00:59:56,770 --> 00:59:51,830 people of that quality and it was just a 1281 00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:56,780 feeding frenzy we took advantage of 1282 01:00:00,720 --> 00:59:58,730 three three full days there I we went 1283 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:00,730 through a lot of files 1284 01:00:05,970 --> 01:00:03,250 hey your big days coming up good luck to 1285 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:05,980 you thank you very much yeah come out 1286 01:00:11,940 --> 01:00:09,970 tonight and we get to the story of the 1287 01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:11,950 real story of Farmington it's a 1288 01:00:19,950 --> 01:00:18,329 it's needed to been told properly and 1289 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:19,960 and it's in good hands 1290 01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:21,730 that's right all right Dave thanks so 1291 01:00:28,290 --> 01:00:25,089 much thank you and great show all right 1292 01:00:31,890 --> 01:00:28,300 take care all right a question I'm gonna 1293 01:00:34,650 --> 01:00:31,900 ask I'm gonna ask you first Scott and 1294 01:00:37,290 --> 01:00:34,660 Suzanne and that is were there times 1295 01:00:41,220 --> 01:00:37,300 when you felt like giving up like I've 1296 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:41,230 had it and or did you just have you just 1297 01:00:46,020 --> 01:00:44,650 stayed right on this you know it seems 1298 01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,030 like everyone goes through those phases 1299 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:48,160 and I just wondered to hear that from 1300 01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:53,050 you I don't know I think there's days 1301 01:00:59,400 --> 01:00:55,810 you get frustrated you know many trips 1302 01:01:04,890 --> 01:00:59,410 down to Maxwell and you know there's $10 1303 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:04,900 or 10 million file boxes and million 1304 01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:07,450 yeah I mean the entire history of the 1305 01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:09,310 Air Force is sitting in this building it 1306 01:01:12,990 --> 01:01:10,630 looks like a building out of Indiana 1307 01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:13,000 Jones and of course you don't have free 1308 01:01:17,970 --> 01:01:15,369 rein yeah look you get down with your 1309 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:17,980 list and I'd like documents this this 1310 01:01:22,380 --> 01:01:20,170 and this and they either come back with 1311 01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:22,390 a yeah we're gonna read it and we're 1312 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:25,660 gonna think about it and pass it on to 1313 01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:29,050 the intelligence folks and you know you 1314 01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:30,910 could be there a whole i I've gotten 1315 01:01:34,829 --> 01:01:32,470 down there Sunday night to be there 1316 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:34,839 first thing Monday and left Friday when 1317 01:01:38,970 --> 01:01:36,450 they were throwing me out the door and 1318 01:01:40,740 --> 01:01:38,980 some trips you come back with a couple 1319 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:40,750 of gems and some trips you come back 1320 01:01:46,349 --> 01:01:43,930 with absolutely nothing and the Air 1321 01:01:48,420 --> 01:01:46,359 Force is incredibly good to work with I 1322 01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:48,430 want your listening audience to know 1323 01:01:52,410 --> 01:01:50,650 that they're they're not 1324 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:52,420 stick-in-the-muds like well you know we 1325 01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:54,130 don't even like you UFO people being 1326 01:01:59,460 --> 01:01:56,170 here the total opposite that they're 1327 01:02:02,359 --> 01:01:59,470 great people very professional but just 1328 01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:02,369 say they have a job to do and because of 1329 01:02:08,849 --> 01:02:06,220 many reasons sources methods and means 1330 01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:08,859 as the top one they can't always give 1331 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:11,680 you documents even from back in 1948 1332 01:02:17,370 --> 01:02:14,410 if those sources are still being used 1333 01:02:19,740 --> 01:02:17,380 or the methods or the means but yeah 1334 01:02:22,380 --> 01:02:19,750 sometimes driving back late Friday night 1335 01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:22,390 back to North Carolina it's kind of like 1336 01:02:26,540 --> 01:02:24,310 well I spent a lot of money and a lot of 1337 01:02:29,550 --> 01:02:26,550 time and I'm coming back with nothing 1338 01:02:31,740 --> 01:02:29,560 but that a good night's sleep and that 1339 01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:31,750 would change well and I and I can say 1340 01:02:38,220 --> 01:02:35,200 that since we've been married were we're 1341 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:38,230 on our way to 16 years and since we've 1342 01:02:43,110 --> 01:02:41,170 been married except for the last I would 1343 01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:43,120 say probably eight months we've taken 1344 01:02:49,710 --> 01:02:45,550 our first real break in all that time 1345 01:02:52,620 --> 01:02:49,720 right including our we've had some other 1346 01:02:54,750 --> 01:02:52,630 obligations but including our honeymoon 1347 01:02:57,090 --> 01:02:54,760 all but two of our days of our honeymoon 1348 01:03:00,180 --> 01:02:57,100 we have talked and worked on this 1349 01:03:01,980 --> 01:03:00,190 project and have had a passion and I 1350 01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:01,990 tell you what and I know we don't have 1351 01:03:08,810 --> 01:03:03,370 time because we're going to a break but 1352 01:03:11,250 --> 01:03:08,820 no no okay there are so many instances 1353 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:11,260 where and I can think of when we were in 1354 01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:15,330 Minneapolis and we were at the Minnesota 1355 01:03:21,180 --> 01:03:18,310 University of Minnesota and you know 1356 01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:21,190 both of us were tired and and you're 1357 01:03:24,330 --> 01:03:22,960 just you don't even know you know what 1358 01:03:26,010 --> 01:03:24,340 you're looking for if you don't always 1359 01:03:27,690 --> 01:03:26,020 know when you're gonna find it and they 1360 01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:27,700 brought up the boxes and you have to 1361 01:03:32,850 --> 01:03:29,710 wear white gloves and these boxes have 1362 01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:32,860 been in the archives underneath ground 1363 01:03:37,290 --> 01:03:35,680 or several floors nobody's looked at 1364 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:37,300 them we're sitting going through 1365 01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:42,370 documents and you find a treasure and 1366 01:03:46,740 --> 01:03:44,470 you find something and it's like a 1367 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:46,750 treasure hunt and I could just you're so 1368 01:03:49,860 --> 01:03:48,610 giddy you can hardly control yourself 1369 01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:49,870 and you have to be quiet in this library 1370 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:52,240 because you know everybody that's the 1371 01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:54,850 rules but it's things like that it seems 1372 01:03:59,340 --> 01:03:56,650 like every time that we start tonight 1373 01:04:01,440 --> 01:03:59,350 I'm sure Frank's gonna mirror this that 1374 01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,450 every time that we get to the point that 1375 01:04:07,230 --> 01:04:04,480 we think you know maybe we just need to 1376 01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:07,240 take a big break on this either somebody 1377 01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:09,340 comes into our lives or our new piece of 1378 01:04:13,770 --> 01:04:11,410 information or something that gets us 1379 01:04:15,210 --> 01:04:13,780 all juiced up again and and I'll pass 1380 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:15,220 that you Frank I'm gonna step up for a 1381 01:04:21,450 --> 01:04:16,570 second turn on the light cuz it's 1382 01:04:24,210 --> 01:04:21,460 getting kind of dark that okay and carry 1383 01:04:26,130 --> 01:04:24,220 on what Suzanne was saying the discovery 1384 01:04:27,030 --> 01:04:26,140 at the University of Wyoming was a 1385 01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:27,040 bonanza 1386 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:29,830 yeah Frank's goes--whoa nobody'd ever 1387 01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:32,410 looked at him nobody had seen them it 1388 01:04:36,020 --> 01:04:34,390 was except with the air force right 1389 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:36,030 before we got there 1390 01:04:42,450 --> 01:04:39,970 Geo what they were looking for but wire 1391 01:04:45,180 --> 01:04:42,460 recordings from the four in the late 40s 1392 01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:45,190 and early 50s though thanks to our 1393 01:04:50,610 --> 01:04:47,650 friend Mike great price we got those 1394 01:04:52,980 --> 01:04:50,620 things transferred into digital and so 1395 01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:52,990 we have the Silas Newton lecture to the 1396 01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,450 University of Denver captured in its 1397 01:05:00,810 --> 01:04:58,000 entirety and even listened to Silas 1398 01:05:03,390 --> 01:05:00,820 Newton talking to that class of science 1399 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:03,400 students and that's how Frank's Co he 1400 01:05:08,810 --> 01:05:06,370 started his book now well how long after 1401 01:05:11,610 --> 01:05:08,820 the incident was that was that I wasn't 1402 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:11,620 1950 when he did that and I came to the 1403 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:13,810 University of Denver when Silas Newton 1404 01:05:18,690 --> 01:05:15,970 broke the news to the world through the 1405 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:18,700 students that a UFO had been recovered 1406 01:05:23,220 --> 01:05:20,890 in northern New Mexico it was a 1407 01:05:31,530 --> 01:05:23,230 bombshell boy the Air Force was looking 1408 01:05:35,100 --> 01:05:31,540 for him the Air Force was on the campus 1409 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:35,110 before the lecture was over yeah is that 1410 01:05:39,930 --> 01:05:36,730 right wow that's amazing 1411 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:39,940 so Frank the question was have you have 1412 01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:43,690 you stayed steadfast too in your 1413 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:46,720 research or it has been one that you've 1414 01:05:52,950 --> 01:05:50,650 had to put down now and then I think 1415 01:05:55,650 --> 01:05:52,960 that I've retained my enthusiasm from 1416 01:05:59,100 --> 01:05:55,660 the time I first read Steinman book and 1417 01:06:02,940 --> 01:05:59,110 wrote an essay that's how Scott found me 1418 01:06:05,540 --> 01:06:02,950 gotten Suzanne found me so for the last 1419 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:05,550 10 years I've maintained my enthusiasm 1420 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:08,290 there is so much more stuff that we only 1421 01:06:13,950 --> 01:06:11,890 have the time to assemble it right it is 1422 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:13,960 just to confirm what we've already 1423 01:06:18,450 --> 01:06:16,330 proved we have proved the case as far as 1424 01:06:20,670 --> 01:06:18,460 I'm concerned and now it's just time to 1425 01:06:24,510 --> 01:06:20,680 bring up some stuff from underground and 1426 01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:24,520 add to it to show that this is the case 1427 01:06:30,180 --> 01:06:27,250 and maybe it is more powerful than 1428 01:06:33,390 --> 01:06:30,190 Roswell I'm not saying it is but I'm I'm 1429 01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,400 I think I'm biased okay you know I might 1430 01:06:37,350 --> 01:06:34,960 mention something too real quick if I 1431 01:06:39,180 --> 01:06:37,360 could is one of the things that we have 1432 01:06:40,620 --> 01:06:39,190 never had an opportunity to do in the 1433 01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:40,630 two books that we've written 1434 01:06:46,530 --> 01:06:43,510 you're limited by the number of 1435 01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:46,540 illustrations the number of pages so out 1436 01:06:54,270 --> 01:06:51,790 of 55,000 documents we had to pick and 1437 01:06:55,140 --> 01:06:54,280 choose and try to piece together as much 1438 01:06:56,940 --> 01:06:55,150 as we can 1439 01:07:00,270 --> 01:06:56,950 one of the things that's never been done 1440 01:07:03,150 --> 01:07:00,280 is there is nobody that has ever told 1441 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:03,160 the whole story the entire story and all 1442 01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:04,690 the people that have been involved with 1443 01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:09,790 it there's a city councilperson there's 1444 01:07:16,830 --> 01:07:12,730 sheriffs there's people that it's not 1445 01:07:19,650 --> 01:07:16,840 been released and so that's something 1446 01:07:22,860 --> 01:07:19,660 that I think that keeps us used up is to 1447 01:07:25,830 --> 01:07:22,870 be able to in one form or another tell 1448 01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:25,840 the comprehensive story and really have 1449 01:07:31,860 --> 01:07:29,200 history documented and then how all of 1450 01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:31,870 our research supports that so I didn't 1451 01:07:36,900 --> 01:07:33,670 mean to cut you short but I did I think 1452 01:07:38,490 --> 01:07:36,910 that's really important I agree it would 1453 01:07:40,890 --> 01:07:38,500 be nice to tell that story and maybe 1454 01:07:45,870 --> 01:07:40,900 we'll get to do it I'd like to add one 1455 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:45,880 thing Stanton Friedman of course over 1456 01:07:50,010 --> 01:07:48,130 the years has come jumped into the Aztec 1457 01:07:52,050 --> 01:07:50,020 fray and been a big big help 1458 01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:52,060 he was one that had it in the great 1459 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:53,770 basket for years never in the black 1460 01:07:58,290 --> 01:07:55,690 basket never in the white basket but the 1461 01:08:00,450 --> 01:07:58,300 gray basket and we just had dinner with 1462 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:00,460 stand a few few months back and he's 1463 01:08:03,900 --> 01:08:01,930 very enthusiastic 1464 01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:03,910 there's a gentleman it needs a little 1465 01:08:11,580 --> 01:08:07,990 bit of a de bois bobko furred out in 1466 01:08:14,310 --> 01:08:11,590 california bob has taken a big interest 1467 01:08:18,450 --> 01:08:14,320 in Aztec and he is a document in my 1468 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:18,460 opinion world-class expert he has dug up 1469 01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:20,650 documents that in places that we've been 1470 01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:24,910 but we didn't find him and CIA for one I 1471 01:08:30,570 --> 01:08:26,890 act again we could do a whole show on 1472 01:08:34,260 --> 01:08:30,580 Bob covert and he's been really good in 1473 01:08:36,060 --> 01:08:34,270 helping us and supporting us and if we 1474 01:08:39,090 --> 01:08:36,070 do another book which of course we're 1475 01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,100 talking about Bob will probably be on 1476 01:08:43,740 --> 01:08:41,920 our team Stein knew who's going to be on 1477 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:43,750 our team and then he had to drop dead 1478 01:08:52,539 --> 01:08:48,570 one I unfortunately I lost a good friend 1479 01:08:55,839 --> 01:08:52,549 person yeah the culprits work is 1480 01:08:58,269 --> 01:08:55,849 and it's all centered on Aztec and you 1481 01:09:01,269 --> 01:08:58,279 know I might add too and I'm sorry Frank 1482 01:09:05,109 --> 01:09:01,279 in terms of Bill Simon to something that 1483 01:09:08,739 --> 01:09:05,119 we were really honored with is he wrote 1484 01:09:10,930 --> 01:09:08,749 the second book about Aztec and then 1485 01:09:14,769 --> 01:09:10,940 when Scott got in contact with him 1486 01:09:16,539 --> 01:09:14,779 bill vetted Scott very heavily and took 1487 01:09:19,419 --> 01:09:16,549 time to get to know him before he would 1488 01:09:21,609 --> 01:09:19,429 do share any information and he became 1489 01:09:25,029 --> 01:09:21,619 such a dear friend of ours and it was 1490 01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:25,039 really nice to be able to work as a team 1491 01:09:29,709 --> 01:09:27,440 and have him as a member of the team and 1492 01:09:33,099 --> 01:09:29,719 our us be a member of his instead of 1493 01:09:34,809 --> 01:09:33,109 competing or sometimes that gets nasty 1494 01:09:37,950 --> 01:09:34,819 it really was an honor and I'm sorry 1495 01:09:40,599 --> 01:09:37,960 Frank go ahead yeah I agree with Suzanne 1496 01:09:44,649 --> 01:09:40,609 bobko fir'd has found a lot of stuff 1497 01:09:46,930 --> 01:09:44,659 about March 25th 1948 the American 1498 01:09:49,839 --> 01:09:46,940 government suddenly woke up in March 1499 01:09:53,890 --> 01:09:49,849 25th was a very big day for the American 1500 01:09:57,970 --> 01:09:53,900 government yeah I wonder why in the 26 1501 01:09:59,620 --> 01:09:57,980 those two days yes it changed it changed 1502 01:10:01,359 --> 01:09:59,630 history as we know it today 1503 01:10:05,319 --> 01:10:01,369 yeah great guy for you to have on the 1504 01:10:10,899 --> 01:10:05,329 show oh yes uh-huh 1505 01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:10,909 now about witnesses approximately how 1506 01:10:16,049 --> 01:10:14,050 many witnesses were to the crash itself 1507 01:10:18,700 --> 01:10:16,059 are you aware of that 1508 01:10:21,250 --> 01:10:18,710 hmm I think I think I've pieced together 1509 01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:21,260 not that we were able to talk or know 1510 01:10:30,339 --> 01:10:25,570 all of them but it looks like 16 people 1511 01:10:32,279 --> 01:10:30,349 16 and then afterwards afterwards there 1512 01:10:36,129 --> 01:10:32,289 was the military there were those 1513 01:10:39,250 --> 01:10:36,139 purportedly the scientists and can you 1514 01:10:43,089 --> 01:10:39,260 talk about the scientists and and and 1515 01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,099 Scully the connection there Frank Scully 1516 01:10:48,910 --> 01:10:46,159 in his book and by the way those want to 1517 01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:48,920 reach out and buy one on Amazon it's 1518 01:10:54,609 --> 01:10:52,159 called behind the flying saucers it was 1519 01:10:58,799 --> 01:10:54,619 the first hardback book ever published 1520 01:11:00,310 --> 01:10:58,809 on the subject of flying saucers it 1521 01:11:04,060 --> 01:11:00,320 Frank Scully 1522 01:11:06,339 --> 01:11:04,070 in his book takes eight to nine 1523 01:11:08,740 --> 01:11:06,349 scientists there were nine one died 1524 01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:08,750 and puts them under one umbrella and 1525 01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:14,000 refers to him as dr. G and that was 1526 01:11:18,729 --> 01:11:16,040 another part of Aztec that got poo pooed 1527 01:11:21,490 --> 01:11:18,739 over the years where some of the crazy 1528 01:11:23,709 --> 01:11:21,500 claims these scientists made when that 1529 01:11:27,310 --> 01:11:23,719 when they sat down and were interviewed 1530 01:11:28,959 --> 01:11:27,320 by Frank Scully such as these scientists 1531 01:11:31,780 --> 01:11:28,969 said during World War 2 they had a 1532 01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:31,790 billion dollar budget which nobody could 1533 01:11:38,410 --> 01:11:35,090 even fathom a billion dollars in 1950 1534 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:38,420 and that they had technology that they 1535 01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:42,530 could sniff out subs underwater and in 1536 01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:44,960 one day took out seven well people 1537 01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:47,270 reading that book in 1950 so come on 1538 01:11:51,450 --> 01:11:49,070 World War two is only over five years 1539 01:11:55,510 --> 01:11:51,460 ago we've never heard of this technology 1540 01:11:57,339 --> 01:11:55,520 well it turns out by the time 1990-1995 1541 01:12:00,069 --> 01:11:57,349 rolled around and with the help of the 1542 01:12:03,339 --> 01:12:00,079 people at Texas Instruments we found out 1543 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:03,349 that technology did exist and we found 1544 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:07,130 out that the special group that worked 1545 01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:09,650 on everything and splintering off 1546 01:12:13,839 --> 01:12:11,510 including the Manhattan Project their 1547 01:12:17,770 --> 01:12:13,849 budget was a billion dollars annually 1548 01:12:19,930 --> 01:12:17,780 now we started taking the clues that 1549 01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:19,940 Frank Scully do have you ever if you're 1550 01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:21,679 ever read his book part know behind the 1551 01:12:27,490 --> 01:12:24,290 plum site that's it you need a copy I've 1552 01:12:29,740 --> 01:12:27,500 got one you start like peeling back the 1553 01:12:32,379 --> 01:12:29,750 young you know on each scientist that 1554 01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:32,389 Scully talks about and then you look at 1555 01:12:36,609 --> 01:12:34,489 who the scientists the war in these 1556 01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,619 programs you can go well that's a you 1557 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:38,480 see that's this guy and that's this guy 1558 01:12:43,839 --> 01:12:41,090 I say easy it took us three years he 1559 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:43,849 creates almost like riddles yeah look so 1560 01:12:48,399 --> 01:12:46,010 he doesn't directly say their names it 1561 01:12:50,919 --> 01:12:48,409 doesn't say the name he gives like a 1562 01:12:52,959 --> 01:12:50,929 riddle a little hint of well he got his 1563 01:12:55,540 --> 01:12:52,969 degree at this college and then went to 1564 01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:55,550 Berlin Germany and finished another 1565 01:13:00,760 --> 01:12:58,010 degree and then came back and worked for 1566 01:13:02,350 --> 01:13:00,770 the War Department and you just we had 1567 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:02,360 to sit there and a lot of people helped 1568 01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:04,010 on this Frank Warren from the UFO 1569 01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:06,530 Chronicles was a big help and we just 1570 01:13:11,620 --> 01:13:09,110 had to mold all these resumes together 1571 01:13:13,689 --> 01:13:11,630 and see who it fit and the one that we 1572 01:13:16,649 --> 01:13:13,699 came up with that was most fascinating 1573 01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:16,659 was Jonathan 1574 01:13:21,790 --> 01:13:20,210 Turin state that after the war 1575 01:13:27,610 --> 01:13:21,800 went back to the University of Minnesota 1576 01:13:31,690 --> 01:13:27,620 and and died just weeks before Frank 1577 01:13:33,729 --> 01:13:31,700 Scully's book came out sadly so the 1578 01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,739 scientists were rely they weren't a 1579 01:13:38,860 --> 01:13:35,600 figment of Frank Scully's imagination 1580 01:13:42,820 --> 01:13:38,870 but these were world-class scientists I 1581 01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:42,830 mean they they were amazing people and 1582 01:13:46,270 --> 01:13:44,960 hand-picked to work for those projects 1583 01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:46,280 during World War two 1584 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:49,489 and their poor Naturals to be working on 1585 01:13:57,150 --> 01:13:53,530 something unknown such as a flying disc 1586 01:14:01,600 --> 01:13:57,160 and you wonder or I wonder I should say 1587 01:14:04,209 --> 01:14:01,610 pardon me where where all the tinkering 1588 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:04,219 you know did it lead to anything did 1589 01:14:10,930 --> 01:14:06,410 they figure anything out you know I mean 1590 01:14:13,060 --> 01:14:10,940 when you I saw your your disc a picture 1591 01:14:15,070 --> 01:14:13,070 of your disc that you had and there's 1592 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:15,080 absolutely no place that it looks like 1593 01:14:20,050 --> 01:14:17,090 there's any place you know any 1594 01:14:23,530 --> 01:14:20,060 propulsion to it at all you know so it's 1595 01:14:24,700 --> 01:14:23,540 it's a it's interesting and the the 1596 01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:24,710 thing you said at the beginning of the 1597 01:14:28,810 --> 01:14:26,719 show someone reached in with like a pole 1598 01:14:31,780 --> 01:14:28,820 and pushed a button and door open 1599 01:14:33,700 --> 01:14:31,790 that sounds primitive almost you know 1600 01:14:37,660 --> 01:14:33,710 well are you gonna remember all the oil 1601 01:14:39,550 --> 01:14:37,670 field workers out there those trucks and 1602 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:39,560 we have a brother-in-law that works out 1603 01:14:44,290 --> 01:14:42,650 there in the oil fields they have a lot 1604 01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:44,300 of equipment on those trucks they have 1605 01:14:49,390 --> 01:14:47,450 winches they have welders if we could go 1606 01:14:51,220 --> 01:14:49,400 on and on and on and they also have to 1607 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:51,230 sometimes be their own fire truck in 1608 01:14:56,740 --> 01:14:53,930 case they have a fire and it was 1609 01:14:58,780 --> 01:14:56,750 described that it was a fire pole that 1610 01:15:00,790 --> 01:14:58,790 was pushed through the porthole now I 1611 01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:00,800 didn't mean I didn't mean the use of the 1612 01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:03,050 fire pole I just mean I meant that a 1613 01:15:08,770 --> 01:15:06,530 button could be pushed Ryan's right you 1614 01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:08,780 know well but one thing a couple things 1615 01:15:15,670 --> 01:15:11,270 that they found and think of where we're 1616 01:15:18,550 --> 01:15:15,680 at today was they saw where you would 1617 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:18,560 push your handprint in on their 1618 01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:24,770 handprint in right - I guess drive 1619 01:15:31,690 --> 01:15:26,480 something is that would that be an 1620 01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:31,700 accurate description the UH around the 1621 01:15:38,540 --> 01:15:34,050 dome there was 1622 01:15:39,950 --> 01:15:38,550 a reflective glass like that you 1623 01:15:43,730 --> 01:15:39,960 couldn't see that there was anything 1624 01:15:47,710 --> 01:15:43,740 there and it was almost like sunglasses 1625 01:15:52,010 --> 01:15:47,720 that the old highway patrolman usual 1626 01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:52,020 glasses which that didn't exist there 1627 01:15:58,370 --> 01:15:54,810 were CDs like type things with 1628 01:16:00,800 --> 01:15:58,380 information on them so there were am I 1629 01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:00,810 thinking what are some things else that 1630 01:16:04,370 --> 01:16:01,530 I'm missing 1631 01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:04,380 oh you're how about the consoles that 1632 01:16:09,530 --> 01:16:06,120 they described it looking like little 1633 01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:09,540 typewriters yeat that's what they 1634 01:16:15,050 --> 01:16:11,910 thought they were obvious with some sort 1635 01:16:18,260 --> 01:16:15,060 of computers we're operating with the 1636 01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:18,270 ship and they were described in 1949 1637 01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:24,030 terms not in terms that we see today we 1638 01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:27,840 could alert something knows flat flat TV 1639 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:31,440 like screams that you know 1950 when you 1640 01:16:35,210 --> 01:16:33,810 read Frank Scully's book that didn't 1641 01:16:38,900 --> 01:16:35,220 actually come out till Steinman's book 1642 01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:38,910 but you'd look at that and say flat TV 1643 01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:40,770 like screams well we're talking to you 1644 01:16:47,690 --> 01:16:45,570 on one yes it's crazy but but you could 1645 01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:47,700 see we're in 1950 when people read 1646 01:16:53,210 --> 01:16:49,560 Scully's book they put it down and shake 1647 01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:53,220 their head so yeah this is a Buck Rogers 1648 01:16:59,600 --> 01:16:57,120 book it's not a you know a UFO hmm and 1649 01:17:02,920 --> 01:16:59,610 was he trying to be as factual as he 1650 01:17:08,570 --> 01:17:02,930 could at the time yes he was extremely 1651 01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:08,580 factual 100% we tried to go and to see 1652 01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:11,730 him that everything was accurate and she 1653 01:17:18,910 --> 01:17:13,650 looked for any any problems that we have 1654 01:17:21,650 --> 01:17:18,920 never found yes but he you know breezy 1655 01:17:24,050 --> 01:17:21,660 journalistic style and you think well 1656 01:17:26,350 --> 01:17:24,060 maybe just how he would report her but 1657 01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:26,360 everything he said is checked out 1658 01:17:32,570 --> 01:17:29,490 backward and forward and we've been over 1659 01:17:34,820 --> 01:17:32,580 it so many times and you got to respect 1660 01:17:36,260 --> 01:17:34,830 the guy he knew what he was doing and he 1661 01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:36,270 never revealed the names of the 1662 01:17:43,310 --> 01:17:39,960 scientists not even to his wife and 1663 01:17:45,950 --> 01:17:43,320 children yes and but the book was 1664 01:17:49,330 --> 01:17:45,960 totally discredited at the time yes 1665 01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:51,560 there's a person by the name of Jay 1666 01:17:55,190 --> 01:17:53,520 pecan and we've used his name but I 1667 01:17:58,100 --> 01:17:55,200 don't think we've told who he is Jay 1668 01:18:01,910 --> 01:17:58,110 pecan at the time when when Scully 1669 01:18:05,180 --> 01:18:01,920 received this information okay skali 1670 01:18:08,540 --> 01:18:05,190 received this information about the 1671 01:18:13,670 --> 01:18:08,550 craft and was asked to go ahead and tell 1672 01:18:17,740 --> 01:18:13,680 the story he put out a few short stories 1673 01:18:20,750 --> 01:18:17,750 and and articles in some magazines and 1674 01:18:23,060 --> 01:18:20,760 JP Kahn was a person that worked for the 1675 01:18:25,820 --> 01:18:23,070 San Francisco Chronicle he really had a 1676 01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:25,830 desk there he was independently wealthy 1677 01:18:32,210 --> 01:18:29,010 never had to work a day in his life he 1678 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:32,220 was inherited as well so he would go to 1679 01:18:36,620 --> 01:18:34,770 his desk and have fun more or less 1680 01:18:38,540 --> 01:18:36,630 really that's that's my interpretation 1681 01:18:41,900 --> 01:18:38,550 but that's that's really more or less 1682 01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:41,910 what he did and he got wind of these 1683 01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,560 stories and he had told the management 1684 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:48,960 of the San Francisco Chronicle oh I can 1685 01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:50,610 get this information and I'll just write 1686 01:18:57,350 --> 01:18:53,760 the story and we can run with it he's 1687 01:18:59,200 --> 01:18:57,360 very arrogant man and he went to Scully 1688 01:19:01,160 --> 01:18:59,210 and said I'd like to buy that 1689 01:19:02,990 --> 01:19:01,170 information from you and Scully said I 1690 01:19:05,330 --> 01:19:03,000 can't release that information who the 1691 01:19:08,330 --> 01:19:05,340 scientists are and I'm in the process of 1692 01:19:10,270 --> 01:19:08,340 writing it anyway so no so numerous 1693 01:19:13,460 --> 01:19:10,280 times 1694 01:19:16,610 --> 01:19:13,470 JP Kahn came back with higher and higher 1695 01:19:18,710 --> 01:19:16,620 money and trying to persuade because he 1696 01:19:21,020 --> 01:19:18,720 had made promises that he was going to 1697 01:19:25,220 --> 01:19:21,030 get this done and Annie 1698 01:19:29,660 --> 01:19:25,230 and obviously Scully said no so JP was 1699 01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:29,670 so upset that he went about with his 1700 01:19:35,540 --> 01:19:32,370 wealth and his free time discrediting 1701 01:19:38,750 --> 01:19:35,550 every single person and we have we have 1702 01:19:41,690 --> 01:19:38,760 research and we have information you 1703 01:19:44,540 --> 01:19:41,700 could read it that talks about JP Kahn 1704 01:19:46,220 --> 01:19:44,550 sending to J Edgar Hoover we have a copy 1705 01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:46,230 of the original letter that was sent to 1706 01:19:53,390 --> 01:19:49,890 Jagger Hoover by JP Kahn and there there 1707 01:19:55,790 --> 01:19:53,400 are numerous occasions you just play 1708 01:19:58,680 --> 01:19:55,800 step by step by step discredited and 1709 01:20:01,560 --> 01:19:58,690 that's where the hoax really comes in 1710 01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:01,570 you can see again we are able to prove 1711 01:20:08,370 --> 01:20:06,550 this with with wit forms but that that 1712 01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:08,380 he that was what he was out to do was 1713 01:20:11,970 --> 01:20:10,450 discredit it and I think it must have 1714 01:20:14,910 --> 01:20:11,980 worked hand in hand with what the 1715 01:20:19,770 --> 01:20:14,920 government wanted to do anyway in 1716 01:20:24,780 --> 01:20:19,780 between that and the the court you know 1717 01:20:28,830 --> 01:20:24,790 the trial of the oilmen arm wasn't 1718 01:20:31,410 --> 01:20:28,840 actually oil men but the Doodlebug yeah 1719 01:20:35,550 --> 01:20:31,420 the Doolittle are people for an 1720 01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:35,560 investment and all that yeah so today 1721 01:20:41,100 --> 01:20:38,890 what what is the biggest battle you're 1722 01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:41,110 at the biggest struggle in in trying to 1723 01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:44,080 get this story out there you know 1724 01:20:50,250 --> 01:20:48,130 against the the sceptics well I've never 1725 01:20:52,140 --> 01:20:50,260 ever paid any attention to the skeptics 1726 01:20:55,620 --> 01:20:52,150 because I never met one that actually 1727 01:20:58,830 --> 01:20:55,630 did any research on it they like to go 1728 01:21:02,280 --> 01:20:58,840 back and read Wikipedia or a story 1729 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:02,290 written by Ken Purdy from true magazine 1730 01:21:09,330 --> 01:21:05,290 and and use that as their their exterior 1731 01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:09,340 criteria exactly hang on we have a call 1732 01:21:13,770 --> 01:21:11,770 keep that thought if you would okay hang 1733 01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:13,780 on to that thought we have a call just 1734 01:21:18,150 --> 01:21:17,170 coming in right now caller welcome to 1735 01:21:19,490 --> 01:21:18,160 show your first name where you're 1736 01:21:23,820 --> 01:21:19,500 calling from 1737 01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:23,830 I'm William from Pooler Georgia I've got 1738 01:21:26,910 --> 01:21:26,050 a couple questions out hey how's it 1739 01:21:29,430 --> 01:21:26,920 going 1740 01:21:32,220 --> 01:21:29,440 I've been studying Roswell and the Aztec 1741 01:21:33,210 --> 01:21:32,230 UFO crash and other incidents for many 1742 01:21:35,010 --> 01:21:33,220 many years and one of the most 1743 01:21:37,580 --> 01:21:35,020 interesting things I've found in support 1744 01:21:40,380 --> 01:21:37,590 of the Aztec UFO and I've heard this 1745 01:21:43,380 --> 01:21:40,390 before is that there were field ration 1746 01:21:49,530 --> 01:21:43,390 cans found at the spot where the crash 1747 01:21:51,330 --> 01:21:49,540 allegedly happened you have any 1748 01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:51,340 photographs of them that you could post 1749 01:21:58,530 --> 01:21:54,490 online the show I have to dig through 1750 01:22:02,210 --> 01:21:58,540 but the bad news is we found out those K 1751 01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:02,220 ration cans were sold up until about 1752 01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:05,770 1985 at the local Alamo military surplus 1753 01:22:11,599 --> 01:22:09,610 store and I sat down with the owners and 1754 01:22:13,899 --> 01:22:11,609 they said you know 1755 01:22:19,339 --> 01:22:13,909 these are world war two they were like 1756 01:22:24,469 --> 01:22:19,349 1944 date on them and we actually found 1757 01:22:27,290 --> 01:22:24,479 m1 clips - from an m1 garand but then 1758 01:22:29,869 --> 01:22:27,300 they let the air out of me by telling me 1759 01:22:33,319 --> 01:22:29,879 that m1 Garands were also sold that 1760 01:22:38,929 --> 01:22:33,329 their other gun store as surplus back in 1761 01:22:41,869 --> 01:22:38,939 the 50s 60s so the K rations were 1762 01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:41,879 probably left behind by deer hunters 1763 01:22:46,909 --> 01:22:44,129 that were it's a wonderful place to 1764 01:22:52,779 --> 01:22:46,919 catch or to go on dear thus the name 1765 01:22:57,169 --> 01:22:52,789 heart canyon heart meaning deer in 1766 01:22:59,029 --> 01:22:57,179 german utterly but the obser i had 1767 01:23:05,169 --> 01:22:59,039 pictures of them somewhere and we found 1768 01:23:08,989 --> 01:23:05,179 an old beech nut chewing tobacco pouch 1769 01:23:12,979 --> 01:23:08,999 that beech nut said was about 1946 to 1770 01:23:14,779 --> 01:23:12,989 1948 they used the actual aluminum that 1771 01:23:16,790 --> 01:23:14,789 the same material they couldn't give us 1772 01:23:18,199 --> 01:23:16,800 an exact could have been it could have 1773 01:23:20,119 --> 01:23:18,209 been from the military but it could have 1774 01:23:22,009 --> 01:23:20,129 also been it could have been from 1775 01:23:23,659 --> 01:23:22,019 hunters yeah because they were sold 1776 01:23:26,989 --> 01:23:23,669 right there in the area so it doesn't 1777 01:23:29,659 --> 01:23:26,999 discredit it but it's not a sure thing 1778 01:23:33,889 --> 01:23:29,669 yeah could it be you know we'd like to 1779 01:23:35,959 --> 01:23:33,899 think it is but the alamo military 1780 01:23:38,719 --> 01:23:35,969 surplus store kind of let the wind out 1781 01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:38,729 of my sail uh now even though you said 1782 01:23:45,649 --> 01:23:41,489 you had another question william yes 1783 01:23:48,770 --> 01:23:45,659 i've also been studying the whole story 1784 01:23:54,109 --> 01:23:48,780 about Wilbert smith and his connection 1785 01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:54,119 to serb otter and how it leads to Eric 1786 01:24:00,799 --> 01:23:57,449 Walker in Vannevar Bush and have you 1787 01:24:03,739 --> 01:24:00,809 came across any evidence that Wilbur 1788 01:24:06,349 --> 01:24:03,749 Smith were anyone even loosely 1789 01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:06,359 associated with the research and 1790 01:24:11,540 --> 01:24:08,760 development board that was ran by then 1791 01:24:14,270 --> 01:24:11,550 of our Bush during that time period had 1792 01:24:17,299 --> 01:24:14,280 gained access to the bodies or wreckage 1793 01:24:19,159 --> 01:24:17,309 from Aztec and that's my question and I 1794 01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:19,169 guess I'll just hang up and listen thank 1795 01:24:24,350 --> 01:24:20,639 you so much for all your great research 1796 01:24:26,689 --> 01:24:24,360 Thanks thanks for you 1797 01:24:30,859 --> 01:24:26,699 it was bill Steinman that actually broke 1798 01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:30,869 that whole sar barker case wide open 1799 01:24:35,299 --> 01:24:33,210 bill just sat down one day on a lead 1800 01:24:38,569 --> 01:24:35,309 that tsar walker knew something about 1801 01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:38,579 Aztec and wrote him this is before he 1802 01:24:46,180 --> 01:24:40,770 patent before star Walker passed away 1803 01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:46,190 and Tsar Barker said I was not privy to 1804 01:24:51,799 --> 01:24:49,250 pictures of the craft nor was I there 1805 01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:51,809 but he confirmed that Frank Scully's 1806 01:24:58,970 --> 01:24:54,090 book was about 99 percent accurate 1807 01:25:00,560 --> 01:24:58,980 hmm and so really Steinman broke that 1808 01:25:04,959 --> 01:25:00,570 and what he was talking about Wilbur 1809 01:25:08,959 --> 01:25:04,969 Smith Wilbur was a very famous Canadian 1810 01:25:11,540 --> 01:25:08,969 scientist he wasn't given enough credit 1811 01:25:15,770 --> 01:25:11,550 for what he actually did if you open up 1812 01:25:17,959 --> 01:25:15,780 a quick resume on Wilbur Smith it kind 1813 01:25:20,419 --> 01:25:17,969 of downplays what he did but he did do 1814 01:25:23,379 --> 01:25:20,429 some liaison work with our government 1815 01:25:25,580 --> 01:25:23,389 and had a very top secret clearance so 1816 01:25:29,229 --> 01:25:25,590 would he been in the loop wants 1817 01:25:32,780 --> 01:25:29,239 something like that probably most likely 1818 01:25:36,109 --> 01:25:32,790 hmm there's a whole list of people that 1819 01:25:37,790 --> 01:25:36,119 would would fit that being involved good 1820 01:25:40,069 --> 01:25:37,800 questions with a very good question 1821 01:25:44,330 --> 01:25:40,079 you're really doing good research if you 1822 01:25:49,129 --> 01:25:44,340 came up with those one of the things 1823 01:25:52,100 --> 01:25:49,139 that I get email from and I do try to 1824 01:25:53,930 --> 01:25:52,110 answer all my email when I can is that a 1825 01:25:56,930 --> 01:25:53,940 lot of people will write and say why do 1826 01:25:59,060 --> 01:25:56,940 you always bring up old cases you know 1827 01:26:01,069 --> 01:25:59,070 what why not you know talked about 1828 01:26:03,890 --> 01:26:01,079 different cases and newer cases and all 1829 01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:03,900 that but I think there's really a reason 1830 01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:07,770 for that and the reason is you talk 1831 01:26:12,890 --> 01:26:10,110 about on you know peeling the onion you 1832 01:26:14,330 --> 01:26:12,900 keep finding more and more do you think 1833 01:26:21,950 --> 01:26:14,340 there's still a lot more to find on this 1834 01:26:28,790 --> 01:26:25,970 I hit that big 62 this summer but it is 1835 01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:28,800 amazing that all these years 30-some 1836 01:26:36,300 --> 01:26:32,250 years that we're still able to track 1837 01:26:39,300 --> 01:26:36,310 certain things and and that's 1838 01:26:41,730 --> 01:26:39,310 amazing to me one thing to keep in mind 1839 01:26:44,630 --> 01:26:41,740 Martin the United States Air Force has 1840 01:26:47,130 --> 01:26:44,640 never said Aztec did not happen 1841 01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:47,140 that's an inner it's like Project Blue 1842 01:26:53,790 --> 01:26:50,320 Book at the end the conclusion was UFOs 1843 01:26:56,940 --> 01:26:53,800 they don't say UFOs don't exist 1844 01:27:00,450 --> 01:26:56,950 they say UFOs we have deemed are not a 1845 01:27:02,820 --> 01:27:00,460 threat to our national security the the 1846 01:27:07,170 --> 01:27:02,830 interesting group of documents to 1847 01:27:09,950 --> 01:27:07,180 support that we have were the FBI the 1848 01:27:12,780 --> 01:27:09,960 Air Force and Army counterintelligence 1849 01:27:17,460 --> 01:27:12,790 tried to do a sting operation at the a 1850 01:27:20,250 --> 01:27:17,470 device bar in downtown Denver and the 1851 01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:20,260 three groups of Intel and these are 1852 01:27:27,300 --> 01:27:24,970 letters rights from them yeah that they 1853 01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:27,310 were trying to intercept photographs of 1854 01:27:33,510 --> 01:27:31,450 not just a UFO but the Aztec a flying 1855 01:27:38,460 --> 01:27:33,520 saucer that crashed and was recovered in 1856 01:27:40,430 --> 01:27:38,470 Aztec New Mexico that it doesn't get any 1857 01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:40,440 plainer than that 1858 01:27:47,250 --> 01:27:45,520 the sting operation went bad and they 1859 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:47,260 did not recover the photographs they 1860 01:27:52,710 --> 01:27:50,290 recovered the seller and the buyer but 1861 01:27:55,740 --> 01:27:52,720 we're not able to obtain the actual 1862 01:27:58,080 --> 01:27:55,750 photographs now as far as you know where 1863 01:28:01,740 --> 01:27:58,090 any of the 16 witnesses that saw the 1864 01:28:06,330 --> 01:28:01,750 crash did any of them take pictures no 1865 01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:06,340 no no the only reference to photographs 1866 01:28:15,090 --> 01:28:10,810 is Chris Evans of incredibly good 1867 01:28:18,750 --> 01:28:15,100 researcher passed away in 2005 excuse me 1868 01:28:21,690 --> 01:28:18,760 have the hiccups he sat down with Frank 1869 01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:21,700 Scully's wife and she confirmed because 1870 01:28:26,550 --> 01:28:24,370 Frank's Kelley made referenced the dr. G 1871 01:28:28,610 --> 01:28:26,560 talked about the pictures they took to 1872 01:28:32,700 --> 01:28:28,620 have the crash the scientist 1873 01:28:36,180 --> 01:28:32,710 Alice Kelly confirmed to Chris Evans 1874 01:28:39,180 --> 01:28:36,190 that yes photographs were taken she had 1875 01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:39,190 seen him Frank Scully had seen him but 1876 01:28:43,790 --> 01:28:40,960 would not give any more information as 1877 01:28:47,580 --> 01:28:43,800 to who had him and where they were 1878 01:28:49,770 --> 01:28:47,590 additionally there were the research was 1879 01:28:52,230 --> 01:28:49,780 a procurement over the research 1880 01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:52,240 George that that had seen pictures oh 1881 01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:54,610 yes our gentlemen we refer to in the 1882 01:29:00,630 --> 01:28:57,210 book that was at Walker Air Force Base 1883 01:29:03,870 --> 01:29:00,640 coordinating the Aztec recovery one of 1884 01:29:06,750 --> 01:29:03,880 the many people coordinating it said he 1885 01:29:08,130 --> 01:29:06,760 did not ever see the craft blood had 1886 01:29:10,410 --> 01:29:08,140 daily briefs and he saw it 1887 01:29:12,150 --> 01:29:10,420 excuse me black-and-white photographs of 1888 01:29:13,980 --> 01:29:12,160 the craft Wow 1889 01:29:16,590 --> 01:29:13,990 well you know what I can't believe this 1890 01:29:19,380 --> 01:29:16,600 already but we are already at the end of 1891 01:29:23,460 --> 01:29:19,390 the show already yeah I don't know how 1892 01:29:26,460 --> 01:29:23,470 that happened but thank you so much and 1893 01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:26,470 I am actually doing this alone I'm gonna 1894 01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:27,970 have to ask you something's a little 1895 01:29:31,500 --> 01:29:29,290 awkward here I'm gonna have to ask you 1896 01:29:33,180 --> 01:29:31,510 to hang up when I say goodbye because I 1897 01:29:35,670 --> 01:29:33,190 can't do that here I usually have help 1898 01:29:37,350 --> 01:29:35,680 but anyway thanks so much I really 1899 01:29:40,050 --> 01:29:37,360 appreciate it was it was a lot of fun a 1900 01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:40,060 really interesting case and hopefully 1901 01:29:44,820 --> 01:29:42,010 you'll stay at it I don't know how many 1902 01:29:46,410 --> 01:29:44,830 more years you can do it but you have 1903 01:29:53,010 --> 01:29:46,420 the passion for it and that's great and 1904 01:29:54,180 --> 01:29:53,020 I appreciate that thanks very much bye 1905 01:29:58,080 --> 01:29:54,190 everyone all right 1906 01:29:59,790 --> 01:29:58,090 okay so that's it for the show this this 1907 01:30:02,520 --> 01:29:59,800 evening thank you all for checking it 1908 01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:02,530 out and listening we'll be back next 1909 01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:07,210 week and let's see who do we have next 1910 01:30:16,530 --> 01:30:14,170 week we have Stephen Ward next week and 1911 01:30:18,450 --> 01:30:16,540 oh yes he's in the Midwest 1912 01:30:20,940 --> 01:30:18,460 some people know him on switchblade he 1913 01:30:22,350 --> 01:30:20,950 calls into some show we're not gonna 1914 01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:22,360 call him that but anyway he'll be back 1915 01:30:26,220 --> 01:30:23,890 next week and it should be an 1916 01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:26,230 interesting one so I want to thank 1917 01:30:31,500 --> 01:30:29,410 everyone that helps out and we are 1918 01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:31,510 totally out of time so remember to keep 1919 01:30:40,980 --> 01:30:33,550 your eyes to the sky and we'll see you